Not a knock on Brady (I like him), but there was "no argument" even before yesterday's game imo :)

Not at all. Hell of a QB, but no Joe.

Let'stake an honest look at both Joe Montana and Tom Brady.

Joe played 14 full years. Tom has played 7.
Joe had 40,551 pasing yards. Tom has 26,370/
Joe's high QB rating was 118. Tom's is 117.
Joe's career QB rating was 92.3. Tom's is just under 93.
Joe had passing 273 TD.s Tom has 197.
Joe won 4 Super Bowls. Tom has won 3 Super Bowls.

So basically in 1/2 the time Tom has virtually equaled most of Joe's records.

Of course the final verdict is still out but at this point and time of both their careers there is little doubt who would be regarded as better.

Y'know, this is exactly what I'm talking about. This quote was offered by someone who wasn't there and doesn't get it. Stats-schmatz. Joe put up some amazing stats, but that's not the point I make about him. I don't care what stats those other quarterbacks have. (although.....some of Joe's stats are jaw-dropping. For example, his "quarterback rating" stats from those Superbowl victories which were not kept at the time. His score is something like 128. Nobody was ever in his vicinity. But... I digress)

If I built an all-time Dream Team, Montana would be my quarterback. Lots of folks would choose him. Guys who love stats might not, but lots of guys would prefer Joe as their quarterback. For a very simple reason. He's the guy that got it done. Closed the deal. When it came upon the time where history was going to be made, Joe Montana delivered. Not three-out-of-four times. And if you were there, you would not accept the premise that luck played a role. If you looked into Joe Montana's eyes in the fourth quarter of ANY Superbowl, you would not accept the assertion that luck played a role. He knew his team was going to win. His team knew his team was going to win. The other team knew his team was going to win. Everyone in San Francisco knew. Seventy percent of everyone else knew.

Now there is another quarterback that knows he will never be compared to Montana. Joe never did what Brady did yesterday. Brady might put up record numbers before he retires. He may set a record in ever single QB stat. And he still won't have Montana's swagger.

We understand stats. We're trying to tell you about something special. If you weren't there and/or you focus on stats, then you're not going to get it. Brady is an amazing quarterback. Joe was something beyond that. Brady simply does not have the poise that Joe had. He has the ambition, and most of the confidence.....but he does not have that thing that Joe had. If he did, he'd have another ring this morning.

Given rule changes, new offensive/defensive designs, the size change in linemen, etc... it is stupid to use stats to compare QBs from different eras.

It's time to "duck & cover" folks. Mule and Superman agree!

Okay, let's play the stats game briefly. These are excerpts from an article from ESPN.GO.COM:

"In these four games, he put up Super numbers, completing 83-of-122 passes (68 percent) for 1,142 yards with 11 touchdowns and no interceptions. His quarterback rating was 127.8 (while nobody outside the Elias Sports Bureau knows how to compute this rating, or even what it means, it is known that 127.8 is a figure beyond that of mortal men)."


"As a redshirt junior at Notre Dame in 1977, after sitting out the previous season because of a separated shoulder, Montana took the Irish to a national championship. In his career he led them to five improbable fourth-quarter comebacks (deficits ranging from eight to 22 points).

The most dramatic of them was his last collegiate game, at the 1979 Cotton Bowl, when he fought hypothermia in the ice and wind in Dallas. After being fed bouillon during the second half to get his temperature back near normal, he led Notre Dame from a 34-12 deficit to a 35-34 victory in the final 7:37, throwing a perfect pass to Kris Haines for a touchdown with no time remaining."

"At one-time a seventh-string quarterback, he was still No. 3 when the 1977 season started. But in the third game, with once-beaten Notre Dame losing 24-14 to Purdue, The Comeback Kid came off the bench to throw for 154 yards and a touchdown in the final 11 minutes to lead the Irish to a 31-24 victory.

Coach Dan Devine finally saw the light and installed Montana as his starter. Notre Dame didn't lose again, and won the national title by defeating No. 1 Texas 38-10 in the Cotton Bowl."

Montana's performance in the NFL was no different. THIRTY-ONE fourth-quarter come-from-behind victories.

Just tryin' to help ya. This was a man that could take the field against anybody, half way through the fourth quarter, down by eleven points, and everybody knew his team WAS GOING TO WIN. With Brady, that would be a challenge. With Montana, it was routine.

Why is it that you can decide that someone else doesn't "get it" just because you disagree? Who died and left you NFL expert in residence?

You seem to love those intanglibles and "poise" and confidence. I WATCHED Bart Starr in person. I can tell you for certain that Starr had far more of each of those than did Montana. And he won more than Joe did. So why then is not Bart Starr your all-time best NFL QB.

Actually a recent vote of former NFL players (mostly HOF members) did exactly that and rated Bart the best of all time. But hey, why would those fools know more than you and Mule. Right?

Also, if stats don't mean anything why does everyone keep mentioning them when referring to Joe but for some unknown reason they don't apply to Tom?

Bart was before my time, and stats are to be taken "with a grain of salt", but for my "fantasy team", Joe Montana would be the starting QB as he's been the best that I've watched play imo.

So Bart won more SBs than Joe? How's the weather on your planet?

Not much need for to you to be "tryin' to help" me per Joe Montana at Notre
Dame. Two of my nephews went there and one of them played with Stonebreaker, who BTW was in my nephews wedding. I would guess that I've seen more games at South Bend than the average "expert" on this board.

Also, since we were talking about who might be the best NFL QB of all time...what does college have to do with it?

As for forth quarter comebacks in the NFL, Elway had about 17 ( that's SEVENTEEN) more than Joe so.....................................

Actually, I think that Marino, Favre, and Kelly all might have more 4th quarter comebacks than Joe. But hey, only certain stats apply, right?

Favre is probably the most unique QB to ever have an all star type career, but he's not even close to the "best" QB of all time.

Put it this way, your life is on the line in regards to the outcome of a game and you could pick anyone in history to QB your team. Only a fool would pick Favre as his style is very hit/miss, a true and total gambler. Hence his having the most INTs in the history of the game.

Tough as nails, creative, fun to watch but no way no how is he the best.

Gee, I dunno Mule. Bart Starr's team was the NFL Champion in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, and 1967.

How good are you at math?

BTW, there's a reason that every player on every team now carries around something called "The Lobmardi Trophy" after they win the Super Bowl. Including Joe Montana when he won his 4 NFL Titles.

So let me see, that would be 1 SB for Bart & 4 for Joe. On your planet, which is higher, 4 or 1?

The Pottsville Marroons have a title too but nobody cares.:rolleyes:

I've been a Packer fan since BEFORE Bart Starr was their QB and I totally agree with you about Brett. Far more natural ability and toughness than any QB who ever lived but lacks in decision making skills.

I simply mentioned Favre and those other two per their having more comebakc wins than Montana for the goobers who are bringing up stats to boost Joe Montana. Montana simply does not have the individual stats. Yes, his TEAM stats are among if not the best. But that's what wins and NFL Titles are...TEAM records.

As I also said before, Charles Haley has more Super Bowl rings than Joe Montana. Does that make him the best ever?

Mule, I don't want to seem mean or nasty but you really are a classic example of a person who has some facts and info but just seems unable to process it correctly...a stupid person as opposed to an ignorant person who does not have any info or facts. So I guess that the good news is that you are not ignorant. :D

Please read this very slowly:

Bart Starr won 5 (FIVE) NFL Titles.
Bart Starr won the first two Super Bowls.
Bart Starr was the MVP of the first two Super Bowls.

Did you see "1" in any of those numbers?

My mistake, that's 2 for Bart, 4 for Joe. How about them Pottsville Marroons?

Again I dunno about Pottsville. But maybe there's a spot on the TN Morons for someone who obviously fell asleep for one of the first two Super bowls. SmileWavy

Stop the presses! WIWB admits there is something he doesn't know. You heard it here first folks!:eek: