There are freaks and hate mongers in every religion, every country, every color, everywhere. Those are the exception but they get the publicity!

I'm OK with that. But when they start a confrontational thread, or conversation for that matter. it's on them.

You chose not to be religous because some woman that's crazier than a *****house rat hates Heath Ledger and homosexuals and claims to represent God?

There was a guy in my old neighborhood that pushed around a cart full of cans and wore trash bags that also said he represented God, there's double proof that you made the right decision. ;) I cast a spurious glance in your direction, I bet you had other reasons. :)

You don't have this sort of thing in Aussieland?

Wierd thing happened this morning. Woke up thinking about this thread - specifically about those crazy "church" members. Then I had a thought, what if these guys aren't really a "church", but the most hardcore of atheist in the world - on a mission to deliver a blow to Christianity. If you think about it, what better way to give "Christians" a bad name than to do what these people do, "in the name of God"?

I mean seriously, these guys are bizarre. They are polar opposite from every Christian I have ever known. Maybe, in fact, they are polar opposite???

- Skip

Too sophisticated for those morons. They're just trying to hide their crazy behind the skirts of "religion".

Weird people make weird Christians. Cool people make cool Christians. Just like everyone else.

I am not a "religious" person. I consider "religion" to be bad thing. But, I am definitely a believer! And like 911Rob, it's between me and God.

I really dislike being cast into the same bucket with the wacko's.

- Skip

I agree Skip. What i take issue with is trying to impose whatever beliefs on the uninterested.

Mule- Imposing doesn't work. I've found living by example to be most appealing. Unfortunately, too much of the time, I get it wrong.

I think a lot of the issues arise when people feel they are being imposed upon. I think some people's "imposition level" level is set wayyy too low. Any mention of God at all (or any belief structure related to God) creates panic and a feeling of imposition. (I do agree there are the "forcers" in society)

Some (this is not code for "you") on this board have shown extreme anger by Christians trying to force their beliefs "down their throat". Personally, I don't feel there are those kind of people (the "forcers") on this board and I'm usually confused by the acquisition.

An example is the PB discussion... You believe PB is a good breed. You will argue it is a good breed. You're giving the truth, as you truly believe it.

Now, what if a large percentage of people jumped on you, accusing you of forcing your beliefs on others. It's OK for you to like PB, but don't you dare say it in public. Don't you dare try and convince other's to get one. Don't you dare defend the breed against attacks. Don't you dare correct slander. And, by the way, only a person of low intelligence could ever believe PB is a good breed.

I know, I got wayyyy off topic.

- Skip

Well I did like the "love thy neighbor, but bomb the hell out of those that live far away" line.

So, let me get this straight now, you choose not to be religious because of what a couple of inbred, hate filled, backwards hillbillies think? Your logic both astounds, and saddens, me.

Dot, Dude, I was hoping you'd chime in on the Chavez page. I know this is tough on you but another left wing hero is turning out to be a thieving, low life POS. WTF Dude? Ya'll are running slap out of heros. Who's next, Michael Moore? Lenin?

We've got our freaks and cults - but we haven't come close to a David Karesh (sic) or a Waco incident. The average Aussie just doesn't give a rat's arse who's flag you raise, so long as you don't bother your neighbour with it. The idea that any person could have the temerity to preach such poisonous opinion at a funeral (as was suggested in the article) is completely unheard of.

Australia has one of the lowest (and dropping) active religious populations in the world. In our last census, 7% of the population wrote down "Jedi Knight" under the question about their faith :D

Christianity in particular here has dropped from favour (much like the rest of the world), but Islam is making rapid inroads. Mind you we're still talking very small percentages over all.

I always get a chucke talking to your Mormon preachers that come over here as a part of their training. Generally really great guys, but crikey they they struggle even getting an Aussie to even admit they're home when the doorbell rings, let alone listen to them :) If you can convert the average suburban Aussie slob into a Mormon, you're one hell of a salesman.

Up until this very small group, it was unheard of here too.

I still say it's a bunch of atheists...

Well, I'm an Ordained Minister:p


This is the church I belong too.
http://www.beerchurch.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1217

That's awesome! I really need to visit sometime. In the meantime I'll raise a brew in salute.

Atheists have too much respect for the living. It is, after all, all we got. ;)

Sorry. Didn't see the Chavez thread - but he is a complete buffoon.

I've been too busy fundraising for Hillary lately. Gotta run.

$20 says Phelps is a repressed closet homosexual.

Hallelujah Minister, you may turn me yet ;)

I'll buy you a beer whenever you get here Dave... I feel the Force is strong with you.

I dont feel it neccessary to respect your relationship with your imaginary friend. If your relationship with "god" is personal, period, best you keep it to yourself, really.

Lest normal people think you a bit weird.

Right. So to what in Oz do you chalk that lack of religious influx?

I don't know... For the militant atheist... I say hate of Christians trumps respect for the living.

Can no one in Kansas stake the place out and see if it's for real? Do these crazies have a "church"?

- Skip

Its not unique to Australia. The US is exceptional in this regard amongst developed countries.

A simply ridiculous statement. "Hate" is best left to the religous. Christians are good at it, no doubt, but Islamists seem to have the edge at present.

Your funny.

And your (sic) from Texas. If you were from Tehran, you'd believe in a different god.

Now that IS funny.

UR so smart. U got me.

My cross to bear.

The Westboro clowns are mostly Phelps family members. It is true that there are fewer than 200 "parish" members. Obviously they are not a real church and now that the PGR is making appearances at as many soldier's funerals as possible they tend not to show up. On the PGR rides I've been on we've been coached to ignore them if they do show their sorry faces. They engage in some tactics designed to piss off a veteran. Like getting one of the young girls to stand on a flag. That really burns the vets.

Stuart - I meant what in Australia has caused this phenomenon? Australians I've met are not shy to consider theirs and America's histories as similar. One of the main differences, however, is religion and how Australia hasn't as high a regard for it as the U.S. Why is that? Particularly when it is considered Australia and the U.S. emerged, in part, from Britain.

I was gonna do some of that too but then I decided I'd rather slam my ***** in a car door.:eek:

Huh Stu-?
If you're insinuating that YOU are normal; you should go back and read your last 500 posts like I just did........ a total waste of space IMHO.
Take a hike &STFAFM&MP.
-pid

Hard to say. Sixty years ago (before WWII) Australia was a sunny version of Mother England - even our accent was slightly British...

Your history with the Pom is a little more acrimonious. You guys were more p!ssed with the Poms than we were and had a big fight about it. We just made rum a currency (seriously - small bottles of rum was the currency) and waited for the Redcoats to come around to our way of thinking :D

I think because we were so far from any other western civilisation, we got fairly tollerant of religious beliefs - because until recently, it just didn't concern us. I recall my nextdoor neighbours emmigrated from Ireland because they wanted to get married - he was a Catholic, and she a Protestant. I remember being baffled by the idea of a single country at war with itself, basically over religion (simple I know, but I was only 8)

About thirty years ago, Australia really opened up immigration and it became quite melting pot. I know it was the same there, but for whatever reason I argue that Aussies are generally pretty tollerant and manage our zenophobia fairly well.

The real answer is hard to articulate - the average Australian really does not take himself too seriously (his mates soon cut him down to size), our problem is we often don't take anyone else too seriously :)

I summing I think we distrust religion because so many of our immigrants are here over various 'religious' wars.

I think you need another vowel.

Fascinating. I've been reading a lot of Aussie Contemporary Lit. lately. Mostly Coetzee and Carey, and it seems just as you say. No mention of religion - possibly because it's a foregone conclusion that religion is unimportant due to a new and fresh beginning in a new country. There is mention of God, but just conversationally. The melting pot aspect, however, is very heavily realized in the Aussie Literature, which to me suggests the parallels with the U.S.

Possibly the lack of religious interpretation in Australia is due to oppression. Or can it be there's less to be guilty of in being an Australian than being an American?

This would make an interesting topic. Perhaps its because the US was settled in part, by pilgrims seeking religous freedom, and Australia was settled in part- and not so long ago- in abject hopelessness by convicts. Imagine what that must have like in the 1790s. 9mths away- it would be like sending people to the darkside of the moon. No going back.

I am very flattered, Rob. And the wisdom and sheer weight of your argument is compelling.

Stuartj highlights just how unseriously we take ourselves :) Rob, you're getting sucked in; he's loving your reaction ;)

"Possibly the lack of religious interpretation in Australia is due to oppression. Or can it be there's less to be guilty of in being an Australian than being an American?"

Not sure I'm understanding the question... I don't know that we as Australians ever felt oppressed by anyone - certainly not in the last 100 years. Our history is full of very funny anecdotes about our lack of respect for Mother England; though having said that, we threw ourselves at a cliff in Gallipoli, Turkey during WWI for no good reason, just because we were asked to... A defining moment for Aussie and NZ colonials (search for Suvla Bay WWI). I can guarantee that you'll never have to feel guilty about not worshipping a daiety here in Oz.

I really don't know where or how to define where Australia lost it's religion (though plenty of christian zealots have tried). I just know that growing up in the 70s and 80s, religious instruction was made voluntary in state schools, and I grew up in a house hold where mum told me stories of Catholic oppression (she had a bad time at school with the nuns), and my late dad (an athiest) told me that only weak people need religion... I know that that statement will offend some if you. However when I went through my curious stage, he never interfered with me attending several different churches in an effort to satisfy my spiritual curiosity.

Without any help, or persuasion; I have satisfied myself that my life is finite - I get one chance. It's up to me to be good, treat others well and with respect, and go to my grave with a feeling that for a short time, I was here - I loved, and was loved.

I reckon that if there really is a god, he/she'll have sense of humor and take the p!ss out of me when I stand at the Pearly Gates asking for entry... "You were wrong Dude, suck eggs. But come on in, and bring that 6 pack with you." That's a benevolent god :)

American revolution was intellectualized by a religious scholar called Thomas Paine. The underground movement was spread around through the colonies by the local political centers called churches. The "drift" of these centers was fundamentalist in the north east. When the Scot-Irish migrated into the central east the "drift" was less radical. The openness of this group had less of a center core specific church doctrine and hosted over 100 different sects. When the Americas took over New Orleans religion was not a core political leader. The original people were from many varied backgrounds in social context. There is a background difference between churches in the US NE and the US SE. A crude non-truth example is that the use of wine in the NE had religious connotations and in New Orleans wine was a party waiting to happen. The overhang of all this still exists today.

My understanding of Australia is that its founders were tough individualists carving out a life in an unknown inhospitable land with little support from the outside. Religion was not a social political center. Survival needs of its founders formed the political centers.

I know John, I know.
The guys an alias poster, no name or location, etc.
99% of his posts are antagonizing & prodding for a debate; mostly anti-religious.
Witty dude, but lacks any kind of wisdom. My guess, he's about 20?

Like to find a thread where him and nostatic go at it? Ha, ha.

Bye, Bye Stu-
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/a_frusty.gif