Parents: A question about what I consider to be bizarre by a foster parent

[Dueller]

I got drug into a pro bono child custody case. Children have been placed in a temporary foster home (girl 11 y.o., boy 7 y.o.). I'm representing the natural mother...tough case but natural mom is getting screwed over royally by the system.

Anyways...I've just recieved a confirmed report that the foster mother duct taped brother and sister together for over an hour because they were fighting and arguing too much. Is that outta line in your opinion?

Seems so to me.

[RickM]

The foster mother should be in jail. I'm all for discipline but that's abusive.

[livi]

Grotesque. I presume the natural mother is considered not fit as a parent. Why? That alone is a terrible trauma for the children. To follow that up with a foster mother acting like Dr Mengele is baroque. What great confidence and security those poor children will learn to feel for adult people..

[baldman]

Hell yes it's out of line.

[BGCarrera32]

Duct tape is outta line.

And that's coming from a stricter than average disciplinarian...

[Noah930]

Unless I'm missing some very peculiar circumstances, duct taping a kid = outta line parenting.

[M.D. Holloway]

we use cable ties

[Moses]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

we use cable ties

Seriously though, what part of that story sounds like guardianship? At the very least, they should no longer be fostering children.

[YTNUKLR]

Maybe not jail- we throw that around so loosely...'just throw her in the slammer for a few days'- make her a non-productive member of society? Perhaps she isn't all bad, but just at the end of her rope with the kids. .


but yes, that's out of line to me. If she had to do that she should have just put her kids in two separate rooms and sit between them or something.

[Danny_Ocean]

Eh...it happens...

Punishment cruel, unusual ... and so purely Packers
Rick Morrissey | In the wake of the news
January 18, 2008

We've all been there.

Your 7-year-old son won't wear the Packers jersey you would like him to wear, so you tape him to a chair and then tape the jersey to the kid.

Here in Chicago, we prefer rope and Super Glue, but that's a personal preference issue, and who are we to question your methods, O Friend Up North?

Your team is in a playoff game, the stakes are high and—this can't be overstated—everybody needs to be on board. Everybody. Even Junior, who doesn't seem to grasp the importance of the postseason. The fact that he doesn't is very discouraging. The age of awareness in humans is, what, 3? The kid should know who butters his bread, it being Wisconsin and all.

This unfortunate scenario is said to have presented itself to 36-year-old Matthew Kowald, of Pardeeville, Wis., who simply wanted to share his love of the Packers with his son. The game against the Seahawks would decide who would go to the NFC championship game. So Kowald, understanding the enormousness of the situation, allegedly taped the boy to the chair and the jersey to the boy. In return for his zealousness, Kowald was cited for disorderly conduct and jailed for two days.

Oh, sure, there have been cries of child abuse in the case, but as we in Chicago know, true child abuse would involve taping your kid to a chair and forcing him to watch the 2007 Bears.

And sure, there have been whispers that marital difficulties might have led the man to "act out," but what parent hasn't looked at a roll of duct tape and thought, "What if …?"

With her cell phone, the boy's mother snapped photos of the restrained child, and the pictures soon will be e-mailed to every Bears fan with the caption, "Another young, unaware Packers fan about to be transformed from 'Harold' into 'Helga' in secret indoctrination procedure; eventual mustache seen as a positive in Wisconsin."

Should a guy be crucified for caring? Should a man be criticized for loving too much? And doesn't love of team really signify love of country? Thus, not to tape up your kid is to say you would prefer living in North Korea, correct?

There are unique burdens and stresses that go with being a Wisconsinite. People don't understand this. Ever had your snowmobile die on you in a remote area during a blizzard and eventually been forced to eat Stan, your brother?

Me neither. But the point is, it's tough up there. And this surely is what Kowald was trying to teach his young son, who perhaps was worried about consumer spending growth or the rise in cases of acid reflux among the Navajo and needed his priorities laid out in front of him, even if that involved a restraining device, which in this case meant good old-fashioned tape.

(In Wisconsin, duct tape is not merely used to repair things or hold people down. It is also referred to as "the spring fashion line.")

Kowald's wife filed a restraining order against her husband Wednesday, and he is not allowed to have contact with his family, taped or otherwise. It's a sad case, obviously, one that makes you wonder whether the kid was the victim in a war between his parents. When the spawn becomes the pawn, it is never a good thing.

But the Packers part of the equation cannot be dismissed here. It's hard to picture a Jacksonville Jaguars fan getting this irate about his son's lack of commitment. In these parts, at least, it reinforces the idea that a certain amount of brainwashing is going on in Wisconsin. It might involve coercion. It might involve tape. But we're pretty sure these people have their ways.

Now we don't want to paint with too broad a brush, especially with Green Bay preparing to face the New York Giants in the NFC championship game Sunday, but if one Packers fan is willing to force his child to wear a team jersey, what might another be willing to do?

Call his home "The First Reformed Covenant Church of Brett" and file for tax-exempt status?

Go ahead and laugh. But the general manager of the Fox affiliate in Green Bay has pulled "Seinfeld" reruns from the schedule Saturday because Giants quarterback Eli Manning is a big fan of the show. He doesn't want Manning to feel comfortable the night before the big game. A special about the late Vince Lombardi likely will take its place.

So don't get mad at Kowald for being extremist when, in fact, he could be middle of the (county) road.

It's possible that, if he had just waited, he might have cooled down, and this unfortunate situation could have been avoided.

But Packers fans will tell you that some things are inevitable. They refer to waiting as a tape delay.

[stomachmonkey]

Out a line.

[rammstein]

I might need to know more about the exact circumstances before passing judgement. Like, if she bound their entire bodies together for 3 hours and they were bawling and crying and fighting, then it seems outright horrible. If they were purposely being jackasses and she taped their legs together and told them to be quiet for an hour, I dunno... I can't necessarily go after her for that.

When I was a kid my brother and sister and I would literally terrorize babysitters. I could see them taping me to my brother until we calmed down.

I'm just saying that from the amount of data you've provided, this could range from justifiable and humourous (even to the kids) all the way to child abuse. I'd have to know more.

[DARISC]

Hmmm....Since you're a lawyer, I'm guessing that you know the answer or how to quickly find it and are just being curious what posters here have to say. Eh?

[Rot 911]

I'm an attorney that has been a guardian ad litem and a foster parent. There is no way a foster parent is allowed to do that to any child in their custody. You have a duty to report the incident to your Division of Family Services. The children will be removed from that home.

[KFC911]

Go get 'em Dueller!

[DanielDudley]

Kind of like Sydney Poitier and Tony Curtis being handcuffed together in that movie ?

Basic message; You are stuck with each other. Get along.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

And sure, there have been whispers that marital difficulties might have led the man to "act out," but what parent hasn't looked at a roll of duct tape and thought, "What if …?"

Beautiful.

[Dixie]

It depends on the nuances of the situation. What was the foster mother's intent? How were they duct taped together? Like intertwined cocoons, or at the wrist? Were they able to move about, or where they immobilized? Was the duct tape applied, tightly, or loosely? Was this a one-time occurrence, or not?

Now let's move on to the definition of "fighting too much". Is it a normal arguing, or a bazaar "I'm going to kill you" type argument that would lead a foster parent to extreme actions? After all these kids are in foster care. Why is that? Perhaps it's a miscarriage of justice. Perhaps the reason helps explain the current situation.


Bottom line...
1) Not enough information has been presented.
2) Don't enroll in law school.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

I'm an attorney that has been a guardian ad litem and a foster parent. There is no way a foster parent is allowed to do that to any child in their custody. You have a duty to report the incident to your Division of Family Services. The children will be removed from that home.

Kurt...I've pm'd you. need a little professional and practical advice

jim

[Dueller]

To answer a few questions:

They are pretty rambunctious kis. Boy is passive; girl is a chatterbox that goads things on. They were taped face to face and told to stand oin corner for an hour.

Darisc...this is a parenting fact question since I have only near grown stepchildren. Not really a legal question

Others...I don't really want to get into the details of the removal from natural mother's home at this juncture. Let me just say I think there is a personal vendetta going on within DFCS.