Child custody across state lines ADVICE???

[Gogar]

If you have experience, please feel free to educate me or give some advice.

My on again-off again 3 year GF has two children. A boy, 8, and a girl, 4.

She has full custody of the boy and no issues there.

She has a highly volatile custody relationship with the little girl's father, ie: No Contact orders, a "parenting coordinator" who they must communicate through, etc. Very stupid, if you ask me, but some people just can't do it on their own, I guess. I'm not really judging it.

She is the primary custodian of the girl, and the father gets the girl 3 weekends a month.

We argue often about it, I say that if we were to be together permanently I would have to move to where she lives, which is NOT exciting to me whatsoever. She disagrees and thinks that she could come to my place, 600 miles away, and we could just AMEND the custody agreement to make it work better.

I don't think that these two (father-mother) could even amend the custody arrangement without a court battle. And a series of interviews, psychological evaluations, etc., for me as well, to prove I'm not a creep.

I feel strongly that the little girl must have a good relationship with her father, no matter what.

So,

Do any of you fellas have experience with child custody issues across large distances? Where the parents' relationship is NOT COOL?

I just think sometimes it would be a huge, very expensive, damaging, nightmare.

Advice? Spare me the "if you love her, you'll do anything" talk, but thank you.

[Dueller]

Much litigated area of domestic law. The Uniform Child Custody and Jurisdiction Act (federal law) will govern. They'll have to go back to court to modify visitation to address the new problem of distance, transportation responsibilities, schedules, etc.

It wasn't clear ...different fathers of the children? Reason I ask is if they are considerations re: the two of them spending time with father. In any event it is not uncommon sitruation but a lwayer would need to look at wording of the custody decree to get an idea of how to proceed, what jurisdiction, etc.

It is doable for her to move to where you are.

Gettin' lonely touring?

[nostatic]

I'll offer the alternative: maybe time for the on-again-off-again to go off.

For the life of me I don't understand contentious custody situations. In every case I've seen (and I've seen a few in my last few years of dating), the ones that were messy were because of *both* parties involved. Sure, "the other side" was more to blame, but it takes two to tango. Unless she's sorted out her issues you're in for a ride.

I am a firm believer in joint custody, and doing so in a manner that is best for the kid. In my case I moved very close to my ex, and will continue to live within 5-10 minutes of her until she has to move. At that point we'll have to sit down and figure out how best to proceed.

Any woman who gets involved with me knows it is a package deal. Right now I'm sorting through logistic issues with my current g/f as we've gotten more serious. But she knows I'll be moving in the next few month for school district reasons, and if she wants to see me, then she has to work with that.

I don't think it is reasonable for a 4 year old to travel 600 miles regularly to see a parent. Either you suck it up and live close, or the adult travels to see the kid. ymmv.

[pwd72s]

I'd advise you to back out of the relationship, no matter how enthralled you may currently be. Things like this can break apart a relationship in short order.
Especially after the fantastic monkey sex becomes routine...

(edit) Cindy & I had a LOT of problems early on in the marriage, and that after her ex signed adoption papers that made me the official "parent", thus giving up ALL his rights. His main concern? The lousy under $100 per moon child support payment. Yeah, he was/is a total scuzball. The main relationship problem? Me, trying to be the disciplanarian, would too often hear: "She's MY daughter...you have nothing to say." Kids quickly learn how to divide parents...especially when one is not the "blood" parent. So...again, be VERY careful here.

Run, Forrest, RUN! I consider myself lucky that my marriage stayed intact until the kid left home. With these additional complications? I wouldn't give long odds for a successful & happy long term relationship.

[imcarthur]

Ignoring everything else, from the child's point of view (and their happiness) it would be best if both natural parents are close enough for a painless commute. A child is happiest with access to both & easy access to their friends & school & all of the activities that are attached to them. My kids had a 25 miles commute between households & even that was a major long term pain for all.

I will let others advise on legalities etc.

Ian

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by Dueller

It wasn't clear ...different fathers of the children?

Yep. It gets better and better, doesn't it?

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by nostatic

.

I am a firm believer in joint custody, and doing so in a manner that is best for the kid. .

Courts almost universally favor joint custody...however unless the parents are mature and put the child's best interest first, it rarely works.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

I'd advise you to back out of the relationship, no matter how enthralled you may currently be. Things like this can break apart a relationship in short order.
Especially after the fantastic monkey sex becomes routine...

Don't worry, Paul. I'm a long way past starry-eyed.

[Gogar]

I'll offer the alternative: maybe time for the on-again-off-again to go off.

Yes, I understand the 'common sense' approach.

For the life of me I don't understand contentious custody situations. In every case I've seen (and I've seen a few in my last few years of dating), the ones that were messy were because of *both* parties involved. Sure, "the other side" was more to blame, but it takes two to tango. Unless she's sorted out her issues you're in for a ride.

I firmly agree with you, Nostatic, and I believe the NEITHER ONE OF THEM are any good at all with the issue.

But, of course, you can't mention that to the girlfriend, it's ALL HIS FAULT.

I don't think it is reasonable for a 4 year old to travel 600 miles regularly to see a parent. Either you suck it up and live close, or the adult travels to see the kid. ymmv.

I tend to agree with you. However, I think the parent that 'moves the kid further and further away' should bear some responsibility for creating the problem.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Don't worry, Paul. I'm a long way past starry-eyed.

Read my edit...

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Gogar

I'll offer the alternative: maybe time for the on-again-off-again to go off.

Yes, I understand the 'common sense' approach.

For the life of me I don't understand contentious custody situations. In every case I've seen (and I've seen a few in my last few years of dating), the ones that were messy were because of *both* parties involved. Sure, "the other side" was more to blame, but it takes two to tango. Unless she's sorted out her issues you're in for a ride.

I firmly agree with you, Nostatic, and I believe the NEITHER ONE OF THEM are any good at all with the issue.

But, of course, you can't mention that to the girlfriend, it's ALL HIS FAULT.

I don't think it is reasonable for a 4 year old to travel 600 miles regularly to see a parent. Either you suck it up and live close, or the adult travels to see the kid. ymmv.

I tend to agree with you. However, I think the parent that 'moves the kid further and further away' should bear some responsibility for creating the problem.

not common sense...survival. You gotta pick your battles and I've gotten to a point where this is one I won't do. I ended a relationship with a smokin' hot woman who made gobs of money. The problem? She was knee deep in her divorce fight (after 3 years of going back and forth) and just would not give in. Everything was her ex's fault. At one point I said, "look, you make boatloads of money...just give him some and end the nonsense."

Well, that went over well

I agree that the one who moves should be the one to deal with it, but in reality there are often circumstances that don't make it so clear cut. And if you love your kid, you do what you need to do. I guess it comes down to respect. If my ex tells me that she wants/needs to move out of town/state, then I'll respect that she's doing that because it is best for her and my son (in *their* relationship) and we'll figure out how to make it work. We would likely go to a school year/summer split if that happened, but he's 11 and spent most of his time with me up until the last few years (when we did the 50/50 split). Not optimal, but we'd make it work. And I'd fly up to see him regularly assuming I had the means to do so.

I guess my point is that while everyone has baggage in a relationship, there are some things that aren't worth engaging because you can't win. Or even break even. If the relationship is on-again-off-again, that seems to indicate that you can live without her. And this kind of issue is a pretty big red flag to me. But ymmv.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Ignoring everything else, from the child's point of view (and their happiness) it would be best if both natural parents are close enough for a painless commute. A child is happiest with access to both & easy access to their friends & school & all of the activities that are attached to them. My kids had a 25 miles commute between households & even that was a major long term pain for all.

As it stands right now, they already have a 70-mile commute, two days a week. M-F at moms.

It's kind of an interesting feeling, actually typing out the facts.

[nostatic]

I often find it helpful to write things out. It becomes a bit more dispassionate and you can see patterns, possibilities, etc that you might not otherwise notice just living in your head.

heh...i said head.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I can't give you great advice here except to say all my moves since my divorce have been to make things easier on my kids. It's way easier since mine are older and my ex and I are on good terms.

I'm in the process of ending a relationship with my GF partly because her adult kids are such a big part of her life and her son who has no business having kids has a 1 year old that she now has to parent most of the time.

She's a great person but I'm getting out before this gets messier.

Sounds like your situation is messy now and would get a lot worse if she moves the kids 600 miles away from the father. Makes me wonder what kind of person she is.............

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Sounds like your situation is messy now and would get a lot worse if she moves the kids 600 miles away from the father. Makes me wonder what kind of person she is.............

I think she's just got a huge pile of lemons, and she's trying her best to make some lemonade. Every time we get involved again, we have a great time, and,

then, when the realities set in, everyone freaks out and we don't talk for a month.

I agree that she's so emotional about the child situation she can't think straight about it whatsoever.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Gogar

I think she's just got a huge pile of lemons, and she's trying her best to make some lemonade. Every time we get involved again, we have a great time, and,

then, when the realities set in, everyone freaks out and we don't talk for a month.

I agree that she's so emotional about the child situation she can't think straight about it whatsoever.

So? You are not smart enough to run? Don't blame me when a disaster lands on your lap. I'm done with this thread.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

So? You are not smart enough to run? Don't blame me when a disaster lands on your lap. I'm done with this thread.

Damn. Who pooped in your wheaties, Paul? I'm just tossing stuff out there for some friendly advice. I'm plenty smart, thank you.

All you guys are cheering and slapping our other fellow Pelican on the back for reconciling with the woman he has married, divorced, remarried, and almost divorced again in two years, with hardly a snicker. So I thought I'd throw something out there and see what happened. My mistake.

Thanks, everyone but Paul. I still like you though, in this imaginary internet world.

[GDSOB]

Here is a story I'm familar with:

Round 1
Guy meets girl
Girl has son w/ ex
Ex out of the picture because he is a "worthless sob"
Stupid guy gets married and adopts kid
Marriage ends after 8 years
Ugly divorce
Girl throws kid under the bus and does everything to trash guys relationship with son.
Guy is now "worthless sob"
On going visitation issues...

Round 2
Guy meets girl 2
Girl has son w/ex
Girl makes sure ex is involved in sons life
Guy and girl get married
3 kids later its all good

Amazing, how each treated their ex was an indicator of their future relationships...

You've been warned.

[kstar]

My 2 cents.

If a kid, shared or not, doesn't bring out the best in someone, nothing will . . . IMO.

My ex and I have a 50/50 legal and sharing arrangement that has worked very well for almost 6 years now; Daughter is very well adjusted, makes great grades and was just elected to the Student Council! (ok, enough bragging)

We live within 10 minutes of each other. As someone said previously, the "court" prefers the child to have convenient access to both the Mom and Dad. If one parent wants to move out of state, and the other parent disagrees, then the "moving" parent has to make a case of why moving would benefit the child; extremely difficult unless there are serious drug, alcohol or child abuse problems which have resulted in these events being on "record", not just hearsay. IMO, it would require extraordinary circumstances for such a court approval to move a child out of state.

Like I said before, if one or both of the parents are putting their interests before the child's, then not only will the child suffer, the offending parent or parents have his/her/their priorities fracked up.

You can learn a lot about a person based upon how they treat their kids.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

[berettafan]

i'm just impressed that the boyfriend in this situation (you) is concerned enough about the kids to seek advice!

kids need two parents, that is for sure.