Going to College: What Advice Would You Give?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 02-11-2008, 01:14 PM

Just got a call from a very close friend of mine in NYC. Her brother passed away unexpectedly 3 months ago. His wife had passed away 3 years ago. They had 2 boys and one is in high school and is now looking at colleges. She and her mom are now guardians for the boys.

She's coming up in March for a few days with him to visit Brandeis, Harvard, Tufts, and Brown and I'm going to chauffeur them around, tag along on walk-throughs. We just had a long talk and she wants me to play something of a father figure in relation to expressing opinions on going to college, what's important, etc.

I have a lot of input on do's and don't in going to college, hard-learned lessons as the first and only kid in our family to go, but I'm hoping for some "wish I had know this or that" or some other morsels of great advice you can share about going to college. what it's all about? what it can do for you. what it can't...

onewhippedpuppy · 02-11-2008, 01:23 PM

What does he want to do with his life? Does it involve college? I think one of the biggest mistakes we make is to push EVERYONE into college. It's a given coming out of high school, and nobody stops to consider if they WANT to go to college. I wasted 5 semesters of time and money going to college when I didn't want to, I just felt I should. I finally went back when I wanted to go, and am a few short months from a degree (thank God).

I would say don't get too caught up in the name. Unless he aspires to working in a highly competitive field or company, the college name usually costs more than it's worth. There was a cost/benefit study done on this a while back, and in most cases a big-name school didn't pay off. A spectacular way to ease into school is a community college, where you get your gen-ed courses out of the way for less money and effort. After two years you move on to your real school and just right into our degree specific classes.

Start first with what the kid wants to do with his life. If he can give you an idea, that narrows it down for school. Figure out what he really wants to do, then go from there.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 02-11-2008, 01:29 PM

Great post Matt. I for one shouldn't have gone to college, but that's another story.

Eli is a brainiac apparently, loves music, math and history. He's gone to private schools all his life. He plays lacrosse and started a table tennis club in HS. And yet my friend Fern says he's shy. My sense from talking with her is that he's a true academic.

Like many going to college, he doesn't know what he wants to do.

Rot 911 · 02-11-2008, 01:35 PM

Have him watch the movie "Back to School."

onewhippedpuppy · 02-11-2008, 01:44 PM

Maybe you can help him with that. Instead of asking him what he wants to major in, try to figure out what he is really interested in. He'll be better off going into a field that he already has an interest in. You can also help him determine which of his interests would make the best career. After you narrow it down, look at the Occupational Outlook guide on the Department of Labor webpage. They have very comprehensive descriptions of jobs and specialties, outlook for the next 10 years, education required, pay, etc. See what piques his interest. You can also look at class descriptions for various majors, see what kinds of things he will learn.

Hopefully the lightbulb will come on when you find the right field. I helped my sister-in-law walk through it recently, and we found that psychology is very interesting to her. I think she had a rough idea of what she was interested in, but didn't really know what to do with it. Now she's been taking psychology classes and kicking a$s. Pretty good for a girl that was previously a very average student. When it's right, it clicks. You just have to find what's right for him, that will also make for a good career.

MichiganMat · MichiganMat's Garage

When I talk to highschoolers headed to college I tell them basically this:

1. Go to a big (ie huge) college, one that people have heard of. Its true, you're a number, you're like cattle and thats life. Professors will suck everywhere you go, classes too, better it be Northwestern than Ferris State. The payoff is that big schools attract big companies, and big companies bring work. GE will not be visiting your "personalized, one-on-one" engineering class of 10 students, trust me.

2. Shoot for the top: no degrees in "art history". You're only as good as you think you are, and if you have to fake-it-til-you-make-it then so be it. Better to aim high and fail than to never try at all. Try pre-med, try engineering, try it all, but point yourself in the direction of a professional career. Its safe, its lucrative, and you can work on your dreams _after_ you've got a steady paycheck.

3. Don't worry about the money and costs, thats what loans are for. Debt is a fact of life, and no investment in your education will yield few returns. You really only get one shot at college, "going back" is a struggle that most aren't up for. Wash dishes, bust your ass, do whatever it takes but don't quit. Defer the costs. If doctors can go do school for 8 years, you can survive for 4 or 5.

4. Intern. Every summer, without exception, take an internship or a job closely related to your field. No parking cars, no waiting tables, fixing PC's at BestBuy doesn't count if you're a computer engineer either. The first two summers are going suck, you've got to pay your dues. Work for a professor on a project, manage the books for an engineering team, do something you can talk about with a recruiter. The 3rd and 4th will be the time of your life as companies start to come to you for work and you can literally pick the city you want to work in. You'll have a kickass resume when you graduate too.

5. Its alright to not know what you want to do , thats what college is for. Take classes, try it out, see what works for you. The advantage of college at a big school is there is lots to choose from. Hell, I almost quit engineering for a career in Natural Resources and Environment! Campfires, hiking, and fields of sativa, whats not to like. Anyway, you'll be in school for damned long time, chances are you're going to find lots of professions that will work for you. But if you don't go, you'll never find out.

6. Get involved. Join clubs, become the head of a club, do whatever. College is about building credentials and building a resume. No one cares what grade you got in "Great Books" or the project you worked on in your accounting class, its all bull****. They care about the club your started, or organized, or published for. It shows recruiters that you're motivated, excited, and ready for a challenge. Even if the group is total bull and you've only got 3 members, a name and website go a long way.

Im sure theres more but I can't think of it right now.

Komenda Fan · Komenda Fan's Garage

Best advice.... wrap it up.

Actually, come to think of it, that's kinda serious, because I do know people who never finished college because of an unexpected pregnancy. All of a sudden, the average new college student has a lot more freedom and opportunity...

onewhippedpuppy · 02-11-2008, 02:13 PM

Matt, a retort to your message.

1.) Not true. If you're in a quality field, it won't matter. Wichita State's spring engineering career fair features something like 30 big-name, global companies (including GE). Go to a QUALITY school, not necessarily a big/recoginzable one. Be sure that whatever major you choose, the school offers a quality program. But don't blindly choose on name alone.

2.) 1000% percent agree. No use in getting a degree and ending up as a clerk at Starbucks. Going to college and majoring in a field without quality jobs or opportunity is stupidity.

3.) While I agree that college is difficult without debt, "don't worry about it" is a bad attitude. Scoring a sweet job but being broke for 10 years due to student loans isn't a good deal. This ties into the big name issue. Big name usually equals big bucks, and in many cases the extra money isn't worth it. My job offer is within $1k of a guy with a BS from MIT, who do you think paid more?

A part time job can help offset the costs, even turning down part of a loan helps with the overall total. Also, grants, loans, and scholarships are available for almost anybody.

4.) Best advice in the thread. It's why I had a job lined up going into my senior year. It's why I had my choice of companies. It's why I make nearly as much as an MIT grad, even though my GPA isn't anything special. It's why I'm already operating in a low-level management capacity. Internships are HUGE, and payoff bigtime.

MikeSid · 02-11-2008, 02:17 PM

Don't make all the college decisions revolve around getting a job.

Knowing calculus will help you get a job. Knowing what the Venus of Willendorf is won't.

Knowing both should be the goal.

DavidB911 · 02-11-2008, 02:19 PM

MichiganMatt has it right. There is a reason why the big schools are big. After graduating from a smaller/well known school (in my field) and going to a big school, what he says makes sense. We have local and decent sized companies coming to school all the time.

One thing I don't agree with is the professors, they were awesome at my smaller school, but I don't think all schools are as good as where I went.

I would suggest to him/her to tell me what they like to do and then turn that into a good career. Like, if they said they liked math the best then maybe he/she could be a math professor/teacher. Just have him narrow it down to something specific and then choose the school based upon this. Go to a well known school in whatever it is and you will be rewarded for it later.

Moses · 02-11-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

...I'm hoping for some "wish I had know this or that" or some other morsels of great advice you can share about going to college.

Beer pong is not a major.

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

Hey Shaun, my two cents;

I think your situation is more delicate than most and I'd be cautious to play the cards the mom wants you to play? If you feel you can shoot from the hip, then I'd be cautious about sending a high school grad to college.

First, when I went to college, the high school kids got the least out of it. Think of it, you go from high school straight into college; what'ya know? How about working M to F for 8 hours a day for the man? School has to be the biggest check outa reality that there is; so going from high school to college is not something I'd recommend in any circumstance.

Second, find out what the kid wants to go to college for and promote working in that field for a year first (might not be what mom will want to hear though?) This freaks alot of people out, but imo its alot better than producing another professional student. Go out and get some work experience in the real world. Treat it as part of your education, forget the buck end of the equation, go into the industry and get some work related experience. It will make the education more practical and it will provide an understanding of why an education IS so important; ie: work for the man or do well in college.

Hope it helps, kinda echos whats been posted here anyway.
All the best, good luck with the situation.

onewhippedpuppy · 02-11-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSid

Don't make all the college decisions revolve around getting a job.

Knowing calculus will help you get a job. Knowing what the Venus of Willendorf is won't.

Knowing both should be the goal.

That's how you end up $60k in debt, making $25k as an assistant manager at Target.

Without a good job at the end, it's a waste of time. And don't feed me that "well rounded" crap. Anyone that enjoys reading can become as "well rounded" as they wish. My sister-in-law will graduate in May with an english degree, and plans to continue working at the hip retail clothing store she's been with part-time as a student. She could do the same job without a degree, for the same pay. Does that make sense?

legion · 02-11-2008, 02:26 PM

One of my sister's friends FINALLY graduated from college a year ago. After seven years at Columbia and two false-starts in English and Theater, he finally graduated with a degree in film. What is he doing now? He is a house-mover working for cash. He doesn't want any traceable income so that he isn't forced to pay back his $90k in student loans.

MikeSid · 02-11-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

That's how you end up $60k in debt, making $25k as an assistant manager at Target.

...Or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer, or a plumber. All of whom would have to learn their trade somewhere other than college.

I'm simply saying there is more to getting an education than simply getting a job. The consideration of future employment should enter the equation, but it shouldn't be the sole focus.

legion · 02-11-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSid

I'm simply saying there is more to getting an education than simply getting a job. The consideration of future employment should enter the equation, but it shouldn't be the sole focus.

I agree. I think it's important for my Olive Garden waiter to know Shakespeare.

Moses · 02-11-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSid

...Or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer, or a plumber. All of whom would have to learn their trade somewhere other than college.

I'm simply saying there is more to getting an education than simply getting a job. The consideration of future employment should enter the equation, but it shouldn't be the sole focus.

I couldn't disagree more. You can't become a doctor or a lawyer "somewhere other than college".

A college degree in a an unmarketable major is generally a huge waste of time and money. I have this discussion with my kids regularly. What do you want to do? Teach school? Be an engineer? Here are the steps to get there.

MikeSid · 02-11-2008, 02:39 PM

Moses, I'm talking about a 4 year undergraduate degree. Certainly you had the opportunity to take an art history class among all the biology and chemistry you took prior to entering medical school.

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

Have you seen the high school course line up for a doc?
I doubt there was anything but hard a$$ course studies in the mix?

If a person is interested in certain fields, such as becoming a lawyer or a doctor and they have the high school grades and smarts, I'd give the exception to them in my post. I don't meet very many kids in "that" scenario though. Shaun did say the boy was a smarty pants though.

another thought; different strokes for different folks.
I hardly ever pick up a fiction book; but I read everyday and have for the past 30 years; so take my post with a grain of salt please; likely doesn't apply to the general population.

onewhippedpuppy · 02-11-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSid

...Or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer, or a plumber. All of whom would have to learn their trade somewhere other than college.

I'm simply saying there is more to getting an education than simply getting a job. The consideration of future employment should enter the equation, but it shouldn't be the sole focus.

I don't get it. You can't be a doctor or lawyer without college. If you're a bricklayer or plumber, a degree is a waste of time. You just reinforced my statement, but in the form of an argument. I don't understand..........