Sorry Wayne, in all fairness I left that part out. I guess my point about illegals was almost de facto those employers are cheating the system.

Flat, sorry, I'm on the same track.

In my residency in Houston at least 50% of my patients were spanish speaking only. Most of them did not have health insurance. We never asked whether they were legal or not since it really didn't matter and there wasn't anything anyone would do about it anyway.

Not sure what percentage of those folks were illegal, but they sure availed themselves of our health care system.

Yeah, I know that way of thinking. The better english thing. What are we doing, talking or working? they are hired to work and not to hone their english skills. You watch TV for that. Just because they can communicate, they should demand more without the necessary skills needed to do a job. I hear that here and there form my students. For crying loud, what kind of thinking is that?

For what wages? That's the key part of the equation that your little story left out. There is no job that American citizens will not do for a competitive wage. The term "competitive wage" varies widely from region to region and job to job, but what it does not traditionally mean is "competitive with third world wages."

They can find U.S. citizens to do some of the most horrendous jobs on the planet for competitive wages. (Crime scene clean-up anyone)? In regions of the U.S. not yet innundated with illegal migrants from Mexico and Central America, high school kids do all of the jobs that Mexicans have taken over in CA. and the like. I have photos of normal, suburban kids running lawnmowers and leaf-blowers in the midwest from my road trip last summer. It was a pretty exotic scene after 20+ years in SoCal. :)

There have been unbiased studies of the economic impact positive and negative to the U.S. economy from unfettered illegal migration, IIRC the last one linked here showed an overall negative effect once the cost of social services for the illegals and their (many) children were taken into account. To listen to the brazenly dishonest voice of pro-illegals like techweenie, you would think that there is NO negative impact to their presence in this country. Only positive. :rolleyes:

We can discount that propaganda out of hand.

The real impact of uncontrolled immigration, legal and illegal, is hard to accurately measure. It's profound and permanent, like the prospect of 400 million people in the U.S. in 20 or 30 years with almost all of the additional people Mexicans and their children. And their children's children. And so on, and so on....

It goes way beyond the issue of schitty low-wage jobs and who is doing them in 2008. That's a red herring if ever there was one, but wankers like TW will tell you that is the issue. Put on your waders. And drive around L.A. some time and check out the new schools being built that are the size of a ******* Walmart every mile or so in my neighborhood, every one of them built by a 100% Mexican work force for 100% Mexican kids. (I don't count the children of illegals as U.S. citizens, even if they fraudulently are). Mexican-style corruption is here. Sure, we have our own style of corruption in the USA, but this is Mexican-style. Where it's right in your face and everyone knows it, like the proverbial "elephant in the living room" that no one is talking about, (too afraid), and you have people telling you that the problem is all in your head. Riiiiight. It sucks, and the last best chance to seriously enforce our laws is being pissed away in the wind as we sleep.

What do you attribute the high percentage, Wayne? Is it a function of the demographic in Cali? Is the population that high concentrated in hispanic? Are any citizens or are they lawfully admitted with work permits/green cards? Do you prefer them to non-hispanic workers or do non-hispanic citizens not want the work?

Not trying to be a smart azz...just curious why it works out that way in your neck of the woods.

I said it before, I'll say it again, make the homeless do these jobs, stop the free passes, start fining them, quit catering to them, same with many of those on welfare, put them to work in the jobs illegals are doing.

Well, in St. Johns county FL. last year, one of the small regional hospitals, that catered to those on the outer region of the county, a farm community, was closed because the cost of the illegals who used it, many legal, but poor citizens lost the only close ER for 40 miles because of migrant workers. An ex-girlfriend is a nurse, got to see this first hand, and if that wasn't enough, he eldest daughter, was dating an illegal, who has leukemia and guess who pays for all his treatments:eek: not him, and everytime he goes in the ER, guess who pays, again, us:eek: and he has had a few DUIs, and because he is an illegal, literally got to walk away from them:mad: You or I would have been locked up. The worse thing is, I like the kid, and he is a good kid, nice, hard worker, but took a short cut, but even thought he lives with 6 other family members (only one legal) he still sends most of what he EARNS back to mexico:( and since he is a cook at a mexican restaurant(under the table), his pay isn't taxed either. Car insurance, again I've said this before, one of my buddied custom ordered a Ford Lightning, built the way he wanted it, had to wait a while for it, while he and his father were going to my buddies boat to take it out, an illegal hit him, couldn't speak English and ran off, fortunately, neither my buddy or his father were hurt, but his insurance (all our insurance goes up) had to pay for the repairs and as we all know, the truck nore the value will ever be the same. So you guys keep defending them, I'm still pushing that we shoot them as they cross, just like any other criminal caught in the act and punish those who hire them too, and I'm not talking a slap on the wrist either, more like a kick in the balls!!!

Duller, I am dying to know what state are you in.

Brace yerself....Mississippi:D

OK man, I screamed. Really.

Are they having all these babies in an alley? You're tripping!

Reagan killed our country by granting amnesty to illegal aliens and sending one message loud and clear to Business: your Government sanctions illegal immigration and cheap labor no matter the cost to the country. Overnight, quality products made by American Citizens became too expensive to produce. Illegal aliens would do an American's job at 70% quality, 30% pay. The real kicker is when illegal immigrants got too "expensive," Business took jobs overseas in the never ending search for cheap labor. Small wonder that Republicans write tax breaks for companies that outsource, fulfilling Reagan's policy dream.

We are becoming more and more a service-based economy, and IMHO, service economies are decreasing radius cycles and are not sustainable in the long term.

I like Obama's Green Economy Plan. Should create a lot of new jobs in high-tech R&D and manufacturing here in this country while being smart Energy and Foreign Policy all wrapped into one package.

I was surprised back in 94 how many illegals were in GA:eek:

I have an old friend here in Hollywood who is from MS. His name is Chuck Gordon and he's a huge producer, the "Diehard" movies, "Field of Dreams", etc. His brother, Larry Gordon. was the the head of Fox studio in the '80s. He tells people that they were the only Jews in Mississippi. Everyone says that's the reason why they're so tough. :D

"Should it really be a function of our government to provide low cost workers for ANY industry?"

I'm not sure it is "our" government anymore. I mean, I know I can't afford to pay our congressmen/senators enough to to look out after my interests. Perhaps the real owners of our government do believe they are entitled to low cost workers in exchange for all their election fund contributions?
-Chris

That is a false agrument. If those employers would pay decnt wages there most certainly would be Americans who would do the jobs. Do not give me that "U.S. citizens will not do dirty jobs" line. Pay Americans enough (or even a fair wage) and they will do damn near anything.

Does it not seem odd that virtually all of the illegal immigrants are in low paying jobs?

Again, it is not the responsibility of the government to provide low paid workers for ANY industry.

I'm not originally from Mississippi having moved here 20 years ago sight unseen. But it is a well kept secret. We have a suprisingly large jewish population (relatively speaking). And greek and lebanese for some reason. What really shocked me was not only the gay population but also how accepted they are.

I was in San Francisco a few years back with my then wife. we were dining at an upscale restaurant and the people were shocked to find out there were "normal" people from Mississippi. Drove us nuts wanting to hear our accents tho:cool:

Yeah...but that's because all the illegal alien scandnavian neurosurgeons stick out too much:p

That is true. But if you really want to end illegal immigration just educate about 10K of them so that they can replace (at those neat low wages) a bunch of CEO's and businessmen and our illegal immigration problem would be fixed in a NY minute. But as long as the azzholes who "require" the low paid workers can buy off the politicians the problem will be too "complex" to solve. Gimme a fuking break!:D

"Hispanic" <> "Illegal".

A hispanic person is no more or less liability to our system, tax base and way of life than anyone else - so long as they're here legally and frankly, I welcome them with open arms. An "illegal" is someone here who shouldn't be - regardless of race/ethnicity - and frankly I don't care if they're black, white, hispanic, asian, middle-eastern, Pacific Islander or whatever. Go back where you came from and demonstrate the willingness to earn your citizenship and show that you respect us, our laws and our culture instead of helping yourself to the parts you want with neither consideration nor care for the impact.