New York guys, Question

[BeyGon]

What is the scoop on the NYPD guys that shot the Bride Groom, was he a bad guy, a total mistake, an assassination, what's up with this?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

What is the scoop on the NYPD guys that shot the Bride Groom, was he a bad guy, a total mistake, an assassination, what's up with this?

My take on it was a very unfortunate series of misunderstanding and poor judgement on both sides that cost a man his life and will cost three cops their careers.

The whole thing is sad.

[The Gaijin]

A big mess.

They were some serious undercover guys - that is tough assignment with tough hours and dangerous conditions. The place they were investigating is a nasty piece of work - drug dealing and prostitution. Why it was never shut down before that night is the real story.

Not an assassination. Please.

[Andras Nagy]

Questions:

1. Why was a guy doing his bachelor party at a strip joint? Do you think his wife-to-be approved?

2. What is a "proper" bachelor party? Might a bachelor party involve a dinner with good food, good wine, good friends, and good stories? Why does it have to involve strippers?

2. What was he doing out at o'dark hundred on his wedding evening. He should have been home resting for the big night.

3. What was the real cause of why the police opened fire? Do the police fire on just anyone doing nothing at that time of the morning?

Questions, questions. Only the trial is going to get the answers.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally Posted by Andras Nagy

Questions:

1. Why was a guy doing his bachelor party at a strip joint? Do you think his wife-to-be approved?

2. What is a "proper" bachelor party? Might a bachelor party involve a dinner with good food, good wine, good friends, and good stories? Why does it have to involve strippers?

2. What was he doing out at o'dark hundred on his wedding evening. He should have been home resting for the big night.

3. What was the real cause of why the police opened fire? Do the police fire on just anyone doing nothing at that time of the morning?

Questions, questions. Only the trial is going to get the answers.

Since #1 is an extremely common, some might say traditional thing at least in the US, I'm guessing that you don't approve. Bringing up #1 and #2 is sort of like saying "the way she was dressed, she deserved to get raped".
-Chris

[Jims5543]

#1 #2 and #2 all all very common for pre-wedding activities. Especially the night before.

Never heard the the prank pulled where they get the groom passed out drunk at the bachelor party, put him on a subway and send him on his way to try to figure out how to get back and to the wedding on time?

#3 is the big question. I am sure it will all come out in a trial.

[JCF]

I can't remember all the details but the club was being watched for a while for drug or gun violations.
The wedding party was trying to get one of the dancers to service them.
Some guy (not of the wedding party) took offense and started arguing with the wedding group.
According to the cops one of the wedding party told a friend to go get his gun, or that he had a gun and they got into their vehicle.
Cops alerted each other that there might be a weapon.
I don't recall how many - more than 4 anyhow, in plain cloths but with badges on the collar approached the vehicle and ordered it to stop but the driver of the vehicle with the wedding party in it drove off and crashed into another vehicle , then attempted to run an officer down.
That officer fired , then the rest also - reloaded - emptied their guns again - 41 shots.

I think that was basically it - not too far off anyhow.

Wedding party claims they had no gun.
Cop who fired first claimed the vehicle was about to hit him.

[Andras Nagy]

My dad's bachelor party was in January, 1939, and he and his best buds rented a horse-drawn carriage with a Gypsy band on top, and they went from one restaurant to another, all the while dining and drinking wine and singing all the old Hungarian songs, until they all fell asleep and the carriage took them quietly home.

I spent my bachelor night with my bride-to-be. But then we had been living together for two years anyway. Never once felt the need to see a hooker or stripper before or after getting married.

Sigh, I guess I'm out of the mainstream of U'merican life.

[Flatbutt1]

My understanding is there will be no trial. The case is going to a judge who will make a ruling.

As far as the shooting goes, without any first hand knowledge on my part of course it looks like an over reaction by the police. At least if you consider the total of more than 40 shots being fired, it seems like an over reaction.

The firing of the initial shots may have been justified by movement of the car but only the officer that fired can make that case.

A damn shame all around.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally Posted by Andras Nagy

My dad's bachelor party was in January, 1939, and he and his best buds rented a horse-drawn carriage with a Gypsy band on top, and they went from one restaurant to another, all the while dining and drinking wine and singing all the old Hungarian songs, until they all fell asleep and the carriage took them quietly home.

I spent my bachelor night with my bride-to-be. But then we had been living together for two years anyway. Never once felt the need to see a hooker or stripper before or after getting married.

Sigh, I guess I'm out of the mainstream of U'merican life.

I was best man for 2 weddings.
Bachelor #1 I took to a strip club (his idea).
Bachelor #2 I took for sporting clays (similar to skeet shooting) and steak dinner with a few friends.

I'm not into the stripper thing but I realize that (gasp!) everyone is different and just 'cause what they like is not my cup of tea it doesn't mean they're wrong/infidels/etc.

-Chris

[stomachmonkey]

Try this, you are out for a celebration, it's dark, you may be tired and have had a couple so you're not thinking 100%.

You get into a thing with someone you don't know.

Get into your car to go, look up to see guys with guns, probably someone in the car yells, "oh **** get outa here" you can picture the rest.

I think something very similar happened on cops side. Late night bust in a place with known bad guys. No comfort being a cop cause the bad guys don't know you are one.

You go to check out some suspicious party and they take off on you. No time to think, "do they know I'm a cop", is that a chance you can take?

I think it's an unfortunate tragedy and no one is really to blame. Sometimes this **** just happens.

Now on the b party. Any of you do the bowling ball thing to your buddies?

Get a bowling ball, couple of feet of chain link, a lock. Bolt the chain to the ball and when he's good and trashed lock the ball on his ankle for the night.

[The Gaijin]

They are trained - once the first bullet flies to respond with overwhelming firepower. One cop ducked, the rest fired away. They rely on one decision - good or bad.

The guys leaving the club might have thought they were being robbed or worse. The cops said they identified themselves, but who knows who saw what. A very bad neighborhood.

[RoninLB]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02252008/news/columnists/these_cops_wont_walk_99254.htm


NY Post


“The Bell case also differs from Diallo because none of the officers, including a white man, Michael Oliver, is charged with murder.
Oliver released 31 of the 50 shots fired, and Isnora 11 shots. Both are charged with manslaughter and reckless endangerment. Cooper, who got off four shots, faces two lesser charges of reckless endangerment. Two other officers involved in the shooting were cleared.
This disappointed Sharpton, who stated, "It was short of what we want."

Still, no reasonable person would conclude that the officers set out on the night of Nov. 25, 2006, intending to slay anyone, least of all a man just leaving his bachelor party.
But this trial will test the ability of one judge, Arthur Cooperman - who is deciding the case without a jury - to withstand intense pressure.
I don't expect the cops to walk. Not this time.
Let's hope justice prevails in Queens.”

[VINMAN]

Stomachmonkey summed it up perfectly.

Unfortunately there isnt a chance in hell that these cops will get a fair trial. There is too much political and media pressure to hang them. If they are found not guilty, it will turn into another Rodney King /LA riot deal.