IT guys: dedicated vs. virtual server question

[motion]

I'm struggling with what to do regarding the hosting fees I'm paying out currently. I have about 150 customers whom I host .NET websites currently and am growing at about a 10% per month pace. I use HostMySite.com and am extremely happy with their service. However, my monthly hosting bill is now around $1500 per month (plus $300 per month in new setup fees) and I need to start looking at ways to reduce this.

Each host account is costing me about $9.75 per month. For that monthly fee, I get the following from Hostmysite:

.NET hosting
Setup of new accounts
SmarterMail web-based email program
SmarterStats online stat reports
24/7 customer support
All the usual tier-1 hosting benefits (redundancy, tape backups, etc.)

I could go with a dedicated rack server for something like $200-$300 per month and put hundreds of accounts on it, but I think (not sure) they come as just empty servers and you need an IT person to manage them. I want to have all the same software and management benefits, but possibly with a dedicated server. In other words, I want it to be hands-off for me, like it currently is, but cheaper and able to expand to more customers.

Any ideas or input?

[svandamme]

i think for 1500 bucks, you can buy a lot of hardware, software and bandwith

maintaining it is another story , especially if you want hands off

if you have a geek in the family , that could make a difference, but if you have to outsource actual server maintenance, you'll loose all the gains you made by going dedicated
you can go a long way in making it hassle free by buying redundant hardware, failure over stuff and what not, but that's not cheap either...and that in itself won't set the thing up for you, design it from the ground up to do what hostmysite does

Sounds to me you should find another hosting place, and make a deal that takes in account the volume of sites you need running, or maybe just threaten hostmysite, that you'll be going elsewhere if they don't trim the fat of your bill...

[911Rob]

Richard,
With that kind of monthly payment I know guys that would provide you with your own server? I trust you've called them to discuss the group rate?

I know that www.goDaddy.com offers advanced group rates; you just call their 1-800 number, get assigned a rep and I'm sure you'd be very happy with their offer? But I'd challenge your provider first?

As far as running your own server, etc, I don't know anyone smarter in the biz than our host Wayne. The guys like a magic geek thats normal. Some good IT guys that post here too, always been extremely helpful. Make sure you bump this thread to page one on Monday morning when they all chime in.

My guess; you can cut that bill by 2/3's; so go for it!

Good luck, glad things are going well.
Enjoyed your racing website; waay cool

[stomachmonkey]

Richard,

You want a managed dedicated server.

Can be done very reliably for $2-300 per month.

For half of what you currently pay you can get a couple of boxes for redundancy plus a hardware load balancer.


Had something similar set up for a client last year.

Talk to 1and1.com

Rackspace also offers dedicated managed but they tend to start around $4-500 per month.

What irritates me about Rackspace is lack of published pricing. Makes me feel like 2 people can call an get the same exact setup yet pay different prices.

AFWIW if you have 150 accounts at $1500 per month with your current host they should be doing setups for you gratis. I'm surprised they have not reached out to offer you a better solution that offers better service at savings to you.

Seems short sighted and bad business.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Richard,

You want a managed dedicated server.

Can be done very reliably for $2-300 per month.

For half of what you currently pay you can get a couple of boxes for redundancy plus a hardware load balancer.


Had something similar set up for a client last year.

Talk to 1and1.com

Rackspace also offers dedicated managed but they tend to start around $4-500 per month.

What irritates me about Rackspace is lack of published pricing. Makes me feel like 2 people can call an get the same exact setup yet pay different prices.

AFWIW if you have 150 accounts at $1500 per month with your current host they should be doing setups for you gratis. I'm surprised they have not reached out to offer you a better solution that offers better service at savings to you.

Seems short sighted and bad business.

And they use crap hardware, was on the IBM team that evaled their site, I swear it was like monkeys built it, IDE drives in servers, homebuilt junk sitting on shelves in racks, very sorry place.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Scott R

And they use crap hardware, was on the IBM team that evaled their site, I swear it was like monkeys built it, IDE drives in servers, homebuilt junk sitting on shelves in racks, very sorry place.

Rackspace?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Rackspace?

Yup, I asked their support team what their SLA was for uptime, they didn't have an internal one defined. Management wanted four 9's, we gave them the bill for that transition, and they quickly ended the contract.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Scott R

Yup, I asked their support team what their SLA was for uptime, they didn't have an internal one defined. Management wanted four 9's, we gave them the bill for that transition, and they quickly ended the contract.

That's unfortunate. They have a good rep.

Glad I never used them then.

[Don Plumley]

I'm confused about this. If you have a "reseller" type account, you can set up unlimited domains and manage independently. One flat fee, no matter how many domains/users/etc. Why are you setting up a new account for each site?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

That's unfortunate. They have a good rep.

Glad I never used them then.

Well its not like they host irs.gov, or pepsi.com, their average customer is a small vbb site, and folks will put up with a lot for that price.

[911Rob]

Monday morning *bump*

[motion]

Thanks, Rob.

Agreed, I need to lean on Hostmysite and possibly get the monthly account rate down and hopefully eliminate the setup charge. Later this year, I expect to have 250 accounts. The monthly fees are going to be exorbitant.

Don, not sure I follow? Each new account has a separate domain name, separate installed software, etc.

So, if I follow, to be truly hands-off, I need to just let Hostmysite continue to setup each account? Otherwise, I will need a full/part time person to manage the server?

[SlowToady]

You should definitely be looking at a dedicated server or two. You can get packages where you have your own dedicated server, and pay a tech there to manage it, or you can find someone else to manage it for you. At that many accounts, and presumably with the amount of $$ it brings in, I'd be nowhere near a VPS.

And, yes, HostMySite should cut you a deal for sure, especially if you hint you might be going elsewhere if they don't. I know some good hosts, PM me if you're interested. I'm personally hosted @FlyingCroc, but they are kinda $$$ and I don't foot the bill

At $1500 a month, you should be able to get a dedicated box or two and find someone to manage it part time and there's a still a possibility of coming out ahead.

[legion]

Richard, can you put those 15 Macs to use?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by motion

Thanks, Rob.

Agreed, I need to lean on Hostmysite and possibly get the monthly account rate down and hopefully eliminate the setup charge. Later this year, I expect to have 250 accounts. The monthly fees are going to be exorbitant.

Don, not sure I follow? Each new account has a separate domain name, separate installed software, etc.

So, if I follow, to be truly hands-off, I need to just let Hostmysite continue to setup each account? Otherwise, I will need a full/part time person to manage the server?

Happy to let you poke around one of my dedicated boxes.

Have one right now that is pretty much blank, no accounts on it.

PM me if you want the private tour.

Everything you want to do is easy.

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by motion

Don, not sure I follow? Each new account has a separate domain name, separate installed software, etc.

In every hosting account I've set up, I opt for a package that lets me install unlimited separate domains from a master control panel; and then each domain can be individually managed through separate secure access to their own control panel. Whether I run 1 domain or 100, I pay the same $11.95 a month.

I don't run .net stuff; just basic hosting, ftp and email. But it seems to me there's no difference between your hosting provider setting up multiple accounts on one server, versus the way I do with my own "master account" access.

Happy to explain in more detail if you like.

Don

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

In every hosting account I've set up, I opt for a package that lets me install unlimited separate domains from a master control panel; and then each domain can be individually managed through separate secure access to their own control panel. Whether I run 1 domain or 100, I pay the same $11.95 a month.

I don't run .net stuff; just basic hosting, ftp and email. But it seems to me there's no difference between your hosting provider setting up multiple accounts on one server, versus the way I do with my own "master account" access.

Happy to explain in more detail if you like.

Don

Correct, It's actually the same thing that his host is doing.

My dedicated servers are set up the same.

It's really cake.

[Sapporo Guy]

Go dedicated server.
I pay $200 a month for a server that is maintained by perl gurus. These are great and the pipe is decent. If you want I can introduce you.

I do nothing to maintain my server and have a control panel (not CP or PLESK) but it does the job nearly as good and is actually more stable (errrr, have tried never versions of CP or Plesk since I made the descision).

Are your hosting fees an per accoutn cost or is this more of Bandwidth bill?

If your a mac guy why not consider a Xserve setup?

I used to vist werbhostingtalk.com a lot. You can get deals and information ...

If you are setting up sites for people have you checked out modxcms.com ??? It's hot php app doing similar things like ruby-on-rails ...


Personal question:
Where are you getting your customers? I need a few more to pay for my server. I'm barely making a dent in my bill for covering costs.

[stomachmonkey]

One thing concerns me.

150 clients.

All separate accounts?

That's gonna be a bit of a migration issue me thinks.

Do you manage all the domain names or do we need to get in touch with 100 or so people to get DNS changed?

Do they build their own sites?

Do they run their own databases?

Custom CGI scripts?

This could be a really fun project but will most likely need a well thought out migration plan.