Microsoft...WTF?
 

I couldn't decide if I wanted to make this a long, melodramatic post, or a short and sweet one.

I guess short and sweet is best.

Article about Microsoft being complete jerks and allowing JUNK machines that could barely run Vista basic be marketed at 'Vista Ready' over the holidays:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23406638/

The comments from their own execs are particularly damning.

WTF?

I quit my job as a consultant/trainer at a Microsoft gold Partner last August. I was burned out. I was disgusted. I was sick of feeling like the training classes we offered had turned into thinly veiled upsell opportunities. I was F*CKING SICK of Microsofts new product lines. Products that really are great on their own(Sharepoint comes to mind), but MS decides to spin together insane dependancys between the products, so that you can't get 'full functionality' unless you pony up for another bazillion dollars worth of ***** your organization doesn't need.

And now I hear about this crap.

Believe it or not, despite the moaning and groaning from the Apple and Nix folks, Microsoft really did used to be a pretty dynamic and exciting company to be around. I spent 10 years of my life evangelizing their products. I made some damn good $$$ doing it to. But these days they seem to have moved to a Best Buy model, where every single contact point with the customer is seen as an upsell moment.

And lets just state the obvious about Vista: This product is a fat piece of ***** that has basically failed. Oh sure, people are using it, because their new computers are coming with it installed. But enterprise customers and power users have turned their nose up at it, and for good reason. Whats the selling point? "Try new Windows Vista, now chewing up 90% more CPU cycles! And don't miss our exclusive 'Ask the user for admin rights' 1432 times per hour feature! Your going to love it!"

Believe it or not, that WAS the short version.

Microsoft......wtf?

Um...why should any of this be a surprise? I knew as soon as Microsoft informed me my seven-year-old IBM was Vista ready when it had trouble running Windows 98, that the time had come to buy a Mac. SmileWavy

I really, really , really don't get Vista. The only thing I've been told is that they have that cool, pretty cascading windows thingy. I use Alt-TAB. I am fine with that.

I am also fine only needing a gig of ram :D

I'm not surprised. I'm just disappointed.

Dunno. I was OK with them being ruthless and cut throat. I'm not OK when they start being dishonest with consumers, and profiteering off their loyal enterprise customers.

Yeah, but Microsoft just lowered the prices on Vista, to encourage users to upgrade. :rolleyes:

All in all, Windows 2000 was great and for a few people still works. My current laptop has had XP PRO and it only BSOD'd once and that was really my fault. It has been very stable with everything I have installed and uninstalled.

I don't get Vista. I have two clients running Vista, one wants to go back to XP, the other loves it. It really don't like the damn security checks - YES, I WANT TO INSTALL THE PROGRAM!!!

or being able to change file extensions..

or being able to run a *****load of programs that they don't have drivers for yet.

or trying to simply CONNECT TO THE INTERNET:

I have wifi here. I used to have a mac ibook, when I opened it out of the box, it was on the internet. I did not have to do one single thing except turn it on.

When I got this damn vista desktop, it kept trying to connect through some weird pathway, requiring some password from my LAN that doesn't exist. Flat failed to connect on any wifi, because it keeps asking for passwords. So, after much frustration, I just connected a damn 50 foot ethernet line to the box. So now I get to trip over that when I wake up in the morning.

There are some stocks that I just won't ever buy because of what I think of the company now: Best Buy, MicroSoft, and UPS.

Fuc 'em. It's really too bad that good businesses can go bad, but you just have to cut your losses and only move up from there.

Vista has some good speed advantages for 64-bit multi-processor machines. Also some cool features for tablets. The biggest problem I've had Vista was running old hardware (drivers).

Vista is bad, I'm working a couple of projects where I have to interoperate with various Operating systems and Vista can be a real pain.

It isn't just Vista that has you 'confirm' every damn button click, apparently the new McAfee internet security suite includes the 'feature' as well.

bah humbug.

My XP computer has been solid as a rock for a long time now. W2000 was pretty darned goot too. I'm very happy with XP and if MS came out with a product that was all that and some smokin' boobies I'd be all over it.

What could they improve on XP anyway?

Well, I imagine 64-bit could be better so I think that hardware optimization would likely be the best bet.

I think XP is fairly secure and the controls they put into Vista are lame. They destroy the user experience and turn a computer into an unusable box laced with toxic heavy metals.

I really like Mac OS but haven't been able to really make the switch since my work uses XP. Ideally I could just run Linux...

VISTA- a really poor copy of last years Mac OS.

I love my Mac. But we run XP at work and have no plans to change.

Lets not leave out the DRM issues...

I built my first web page using Notepad (HTML editors did not exist yet) in 1996.

Two years later (1998 I believe), FrontPage hit the market. I'm not quite sure why I did this, but I opened my HTML in FrontPage, made zero changes, saved it, and uploaded it to the server.

My web page stopped working. When I tried to open it, I got errors that said that I needed all sorts of server extensions. I was baffled. There was NOTHING fancy in this web page. Just some text and some images. That's it. I opened the HTML in NotePad, and saw that FrontPage had extensively modified my HTML--making calls to server extensions left and right. Upon further research, these server extensions were available from Microsoft for something like $50 a pop (more than I could afford as a college student). So simply by opening a previously-working HTML document in a Microsoft product, I now had to pay Microsoft something like $200 to make my web page work with Microsoft products.

Needless to say, I restored a backup copy of my web page and uninstalled FrontPage from my PC. I was so disgusted that Microsoft was trying to shake me down for something that could easily be done with standard HTML--no server extensions required.

I guess my point is that I've been seeing this "upsell" behavior from Microsoft for at least 10 years.

Jim Allchin wrote this in an internal Microsoft email on January 07 2004. Allchin retired in early 2007 - on the day that Microsoft officially released the Windows Vista operating system to consumers.

Still using W2000 on one machine here at home (main server) and XP on everything else. Just got a new Dell and formatted it within an hour of plugging it in and installed XP on it.

Microsoft just is not learning and still trying to shove bad products down our throats...

I was just reading that MS has not dropped the price on the XP software because so many people are buying it to install on their Vista computer.

Kurt - O think you just nailed it on the head!!! They make Vista crap, so anyone who buys a new system preloaded with Vista, will then run back to the store and buy XP!!! Genius - what a great marketing ploy

I wonder what really is happening in redmond ?!?!?
Has Apple really got them on the run or is it LINUX?

With all the talent at M$ they really could do something better but their company committees are just bunking the hell out of them.

Sure Intel might have put pressure on them to OK un-Vista machines but ... come on ...


Years ago when OSX went public beta my friend and I came to the conclusion that M$ is gonna take it up the anterior vortex if they don't do something radical. lolo, years later our prophecy is coming true.

Maybe, M$ should just buy Lindows or some other distro and copy Apple's approach ;)
Actually, Sun might be the company to buy. Solaris was awesome years ago and they have some interesting things going on that could put the big bad wolves into hunting form again!


intersting notes:
M$ $150 million investment got lots of Apple code that helped XP become stable.
M$ code is riddle with " F$%#$% M$ " comments :D


Weren't XP Pro and XP Home different base OS code?
Pro coming from the NT line and Home coming from the ME line?

Won't buy a computer with Vista, I see absolutely no benefits, and lots of issues. Hint, Dell small business models can be ordered with XP pre-installed. Vista is XP with window-dressing and lots of problems.

The incentive is when you can no longer get security patches, but thats not until 2010, or whenever they decide to change the date again.

No. Everything since 2000 is NT architecture.

I read that M$ is actually working on a new system ;)
Might be that Vista (errr LongHorn) was really a long stretch into the sakjflskajsf;alfhwuieh ?!?!? have no clue what they were thinking.

The original specs sounded awesome and was actually worried about my beloved OSX but the released product was such a disappointment that I didn't even feel any joy over M$ getting kicked around by Apple :(

2009 code name "Vienna" but if you don't like Vista you won't like Vienna, it looks and feels the same, has some added features that never made it to Vista. However thanks to an NDA, I can't share what they are.

lolo, those are probably features that were dropped from the original LongHorn spec sheet ;)

However, I think that M$ is going to have to come up with something basic instead of feature rich to start gaining trust back after these last few days of net thrashing !

I can't confirm, nor deny that :)

M$ finds itself in the unenviable and unfamiliar position of playing catch-up to Apple now. :) This has been a LONG time coming.

Frankly I'm amazed they were allowed to continue making billions of $$$ off the same old formula for years - they'd gussy up the same old packages with superfluous crap that didn't really increase functionality and demand that everyone pony up another $800 (or more) for it. Think about it: my first computer YEARS ago was a PC-AT clone. It ran a word processor, a spreadsheet program and a very limited database program to cross-reference data and pull reports. My 386 PC from high school could browse the internet (albeit slowly). This is all nothing new.

Fundamentally what has really changed on computers? They've gotten faster, but the core applications are really the same as they've been for years, if not decades.

Also, consider that we're all getting double-dipped TWICE - once for software and again for hardware. The "industry leader" makes it a habit of forcing their bloated "upgrades" onto the public-at-large, who must then constantly run out and buy newer, faster, higher memory systems in order to run what are (fundamentally) the same programs - word processors, spreadsheets and web browsers. Amazing that the public has been so willing to let this happen to them.

Actually no, Vista outsells mac buy quite a sizable margin as well, Apple is still shuffling around the dark when it comes to the enterprise, same story as ten years ago.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vista-vs-Mac-OS-X-vs-Linux-for-the-Last-Time-in-2007-75009.shtml

What I mean is Apple has all the momentum right now, so it seems anyway.

They've ALWAYS had better products.

No way! Mac OS didn't even have protected memory until OS X, which is largely based off of NeXTSTEP and the Mach 3.0 microkernel (Apple wrote neither).

Windows has had protected memory since the first version of NT. (And before that, with XENIX, which was kickass.)

Apple hasn't always had better products --the hardware has always been pretty good, but the software, not so much.

The next version of Windows, codenamed 7, is supposed to be much better than Vista. I suspect ScottR might know something about this, but can't confirm nor deny...:-P

In terms of server software, 2008 is going to be quite a change from 2003. I might have to try it out....

Saporro Guy, SUN still has great products and Solaris is still awesome --more awesome than ever. Hardware support is expanding (I'm typing this on a Compaq desktop running Solaris 10), user and system tools and applications keep improving, performance and stability are great....Also, SUN does a LOT for open source software.

MS needn't BUY MS, they've now partnered. You can buy servers from SUN running Solaris, Windows, Linux, with your choice of MySQL (SUN just bought them), PostgreSQL, or Oracle, and you also get your choice of UltraSPARC, AMD, or Intel. SUN is in a real position to KICK ASS if they don't drop the ball.

We purchased a Sony laptop for my 72 yr old Mother-in-law a couple months ago. I bumped RAM from 1 GB to 2 GB, removed all the trial software, loaded up AVG anti-virus and OpenOffice. All she does is gmail, internet, and simple documents. I was expecting the worst - crashes and unexplained errors but to be honest the Vista box has been stellar. Unpacked it, started it up, and after 30 minutes or so of initial loading & configuration it was up and running - found my wireless nextwork instantly. YMMV.

For now I'm sticking with XP but for home use Vista looks pretty nice, especially if I can get a new box for $400 or so.

You know with the above mentioned requirements you could easily get away with a free Linux distro.

It's just called Win7 now. I think Vienna got dropped, at least I haven't seen that name associated with it in the test builds. At one time it was called Veranda or some crap.

My question always has been and always will be: "How much garbage do these OSes (Mac included) need?" I barely use any of the widgets, gadgets, Gidgets and other stuff.

Simplicity, at least at the interface, is why I've always liked Linux - though maybe Linux is as well more complicated these days.

SlowToaddy is right but ...
OS 7.2.3 was pretty decent and then all after up to 8.6 (which was half way decent) then up to OSX 10.1 ... basically 3 steps that were good in between were very iffy ....

2000 and OSX cleared up a lot of problems for both companies.
I still love how XP and Office just decides to kill off Office for me ;)

However, I still tend to think that Apple made the better user product. M$ is stuck with slap-dash companies producing oodles of software but ... end experience being that ... oodles of software. Apple and their authoritarian approach has helped to keep a pretty even experience, albiet marketing mishaps and what not in the past.

I tend to think that Jobso is NextStep and Apple :D But, yes, NextStep was even a buy out by Jobso. Loved what he did to pixar though :)

Jobs is getting it pretty close to right this time around.

Ahhhh, enterprise ... run by the IT departments who are staffed by M$ people. The comfort zone can be good at times but you miss out on a lot of oppourtunities. Which is why I think the iPhone is the pandora's box for them.

SUN ... I keep watching them to see what they will do. They had the bull the horns so many times ... and like Jobso of the past ... seem to find a way to miss out on the big time adventures. Can they finally do it this time around? Problem is that I really don't what their focus is ???? In the early years I wanted a SUN workstation soooooo bad :(

MS being partnered with SUN is like sleeping with your ex ;)

I like underdogs and I really hope that Apple and Sun will teach something to M$.

Widgets, Gadgets, Gigets are just a way to say that we have now added "300" new functions to our OS :rolleyes:

I love the way Apple counts things that they have added to the core system. Jeeez a lot is just basically shoring up their system, end user could give a cr@p about 280 of those listed items ...

FWIW, I bought my 90-year-old mother an Acer laptop. It cost $395 and the specs are not great, but it came with Vista Home Basic. I tried it when I first started up the system and it was painful. However, the plan was to never keep Vista. I reformatted the hard drive and installed Ubuntu. My mother loves it, much more than the XP machine that was replaced.

BTW, I've been running PC-BSD for some time now and find it to be a very capable and secure OS.

If Vista ever craps out then I'll load up Ubuntu. For now she's happy and so am I - zero trouble complaints :)

Yea, at the dev conference in Cali they said that they were going to be using "mountains" now as code names exclusively. I doubt they stay with "7" for very long either.

Actually most are run by linux/windows admins, and we would embrace MAC in a heartbeat, they however don't embrace us. They have no systems for mass OS deployment, and are not supported by Opsware, Landesk Altiris or the other biggies. The patch systems is laughable at best, and little thing like drive encryption and ldap policy integration are completely foreign.

They should spend less time on pretty little cases and get serious, or just continue to be niche.

ALRIGHT! a chance to slam microsoft again, oh...wait...they did it to themselves...

I don't know I think they have been putting out really poor software since Windows 3.0. I tried a few years ago to start a following to demand they stop producing software and fix the software already on the market. Yeah that didn't do squat, they still kept pumping out the crap, forcing PC makers to ship with their poor software, telling businesses it's Microsoft we're the only game in town. (Try being a Netware guru and seeing people changing because "it's what all the other companies have" even though from a technical level Netware was excellent)

I agree everything is half baked and you need a real SQL server, premium edition, IIS only, AD, Active-X, internet Explorer, xyz system to use ALL the featuress of the software.

Although I do see this "attitude" coming from other vendors now too; Symantec when questioned about why their EndPoint Protection is growing so large on the C: drive, and what we can do about it; "well you could always put it on a SQL server" - Yeah I'll by a SQL server to support your AV engine for 10 people....(best Dr. Evil)..riiiight.


Oh yeah and I still have an SE/30 that works fine and does what it's suppose to :D

Ummm.... I'm not remotely close to an expert, but did you ever use the abomination known as MacOS 8?

Of course, there's always the Microsoft Abomination "Windows Millenium", which actually caused be to 'fix' things with a sledgehammer. It was the most liberating experience of my life since losing my virginity.

XP Pro is on my PC. Everything works. I will NEVER replace it.

LOL!

Can't say I had the (dis)pleasure of either Windows ME or OS8. I do have way more time logged screwing around with windows 98 systems than I'll ever want to admit to, however.