Where are we headed?
 

Economy crashing, American manufacturing getting decimated by the Chinese, U.S. dollar plummeting against the Euro and other currencies, an endless invasion of illegals with no end in sight, no accountability for anything anymore on the part of the average Joe out there, oil over $100 a barrel, gas over $4 a gallon (and climbing), banks failing, taxes going up, the prospect of a highly socialist government in the upcoming presidential election, an endless quagmire of a war costing us billions a day, crumbling infrastructure, failing educational system, etc., etc. etc. . .

So where do you think this is all going? Discuss?

Recession? Depression? Complete economic collapse? Inevitable failure of the U.S. government? Nothing at all? Imminent recovery?

What say you all?

Everything will be fine, Obama will save us with change...

Let's talk about American Idol instead. :)

You don't like my answer.


KT

I think the US of A will go bankrupt and default on all obligations, and we will go the way of the Soviets, a breakup, and every state will fend for itself, becoming it's own country, and after a transitional period will be better off.

We declare war on ourself... bomb our infrastructure... then rebuild.

"Mother" will protect us.

(And of course, I refer to the coming nanny state of Hillary or Obama.)

I will come visit and bring with me good European beer once you have become a third world Swedish colony. :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205170019.jpg

BATHTUB RING. Water levels in Lake Mead have dropped significantly in recent years, as chronicled by the white mineral deposits on rocks that were formerly submerged






http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20080223/fob2.asp

Week of Feb. 23, 2008; Vol. 173, No. 8 , p. 115

Going Down: Climate change, water use threaten Lake Mead
by Sid Perkins





Thanks in part to the worst drought in the Southwest in the past 500 years (SN: 6/26/04, p. 406), Lake Mead is now at about 50 percent capacity. If current allocations of water persist, there's a 50 percent chance that by 2023 Lake Mead won't provide water without pumping, and a 10 percent chance that it won't by 2013. Moreover, there's a 50 percent chance that Hoover Dam won't be able to generate power by 2017, the researchers estimate.
"We were stunned at the magnitude of the problem and how fast it was coming at us," says Barnett.

Results of the new study are "fairly provocative, an eye-opener," says Connie Woodhouse, a climatologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson. Using estimates of river flow based on an average of the past century may be optimistic, she adds, because tree ring–based reconstructions of the region's climate suggest that the 20th century was one of the wettest in the past 500 years. "The more we learn about the Colorado River and its hydrology, the more worried we need to be," says Peter H. Gleick, a hydrologist at the Pacific Institute in Oakland, Calif.

It's a good question. I certainly don't know the sure answer. On the upside, we are a gigantic economy with a huge GDP, which can take a lot of hits, and keep chugging along for a long time. We also will always attract the best and the brightest in large numbers.

On the downside is all of the things you've mentioned. What is most frightening is that a lot of our problems are hard, or seemingly impossible, to solve. For example, entitlement spending. It is bursting at the seams, it is something like 70% of our budget. The growth of entitlement spending does not seem possible to stop, the most one could hope for is to slow down expansion and growth of it.

But not giving a direct answer is no fun, so here's mine:

I think over time, entitlement spending will grow to be +80% of our budget. The military, even pared down, will always be 10 or 15%. So there is little left, for things like infrastructure, or deficit reduction.

As spending continues to increase, the Govt will need more money. It will try to get it by raising taxes, first on the "rich," then on everyone they can squeeze it from. The highest tax brackets will become confiscatory, i.e., 90%. Corporations will be viewed as free game for confiscatory taxation.

The government will continue to also get money (to give away) by simply printing it. It will eventually take $5 to buy 1 Euro.

But like a struggling corporation, USA, Inc. won't die, but will become an attractive takeover target. Not taken over by guns, but by money. With our weak economy, weak corporations and weak currency, we will be ripe. Foreign interests and governments will take over by taking control first of the largest, most powerful and essential U.S. corporations. It has already begun. How much of Citibank has the Saudis recently bought? And Citi is on its knees, begging for more so that its stock doesn't plummet even more. You read in the WSJ now quotes from the Saudis about the state of Citi, and what should be done. Hey, if we are good boys and listen to Daddy, maybe the Saudis will throw another $20 billion into Citi.

We'll allow foreigners to take control of our critical industries (like the financial industry) because we are nice and don't like to think bad about foreigners. They are good, they are just trying to help us out, right?

Once you have control over our major and critical industries, you of course have control of the cash flow, and therefore of the political system.

The good news is that this is a slow process (although bad things do seem to be happening at an increasingly alarming rate). We will be in a recession this year, and probably part of 09, but we will then pull out. The problem is, while we have ups and downs, the trend line over time is going to be down.

We'll be ok. Our kids, however, will probably live through some major changes in our political and economic system.

Bin Laden's plan is working...........Bush played right into his announced plans like a raging elephant.

It's been an economic war all along, not a war on terror.

Feed recent retirees soylent green. Those retired for 10 years get to make it. Those retired more than 20 years.....well, you get the picture.

The, I think our "Unfunded Liabilities" is upward of 40 Trillion dollars now, and our Fed, State and Local taxes come to around 45% right now, not much room to move it up without a significant dropoff in incentive, and a tax flight to lower rates. We've just burned the foreigners by selling them "enhanced funds" that will keep them from financing our credit binge any longer. It will be a very fast fall once it starts. That's why I think Bankrupt is in the forecast for the county.

But, on the cheery side, it will be fresh start for the 50 country/states.

First of all (since I've been retired for over 11 years) no more goofy ideas about our nation's valued former workers.;)

Seriously, I think that when the ***** really hits the fan per our economy will be when all those clever little guys in China and Japan decide that they want the USA to pay off on all those USA bonds that they are buying with our trade imbalance money right now.

That will most likely trigger a change in our standard of living that few of us can even imagine.

Our kids will look back and wonder why we were worried about a few nut case terrorists when their lives were ruined without a shot being fired.

Yeah, a few thousand New Yorkers here or there, who gives a f! Brilliance, sheer brilliance!

Yes Mule , I realize that comprehension is among your deficiencies...but do you possibly recall the topic of this thread that P-O-P started? Go slow, it might come to you. I think he mentioned the words "Recession? Depression? Complete economic collapse? Inevitable failure of the U.S. government? Nothing at all? Imminent recovery?" in his query.


Now, what does "a few thousand New Yorkers here or there" have anything even remote to do with his post?

You seem to have obtained a copy of "The Bush Guide for Dummies on How to Mention TERRORISM or 9/11 to any Question."

Why are we in this handbasket? Where are we going?

Every generation faces challenges, and you can find 'gloom and doom' predictions going back centuries. That said, I think we are in for a very bad recession lasting at least a couple of years. It's clear that the gov't/FED will do what they can to socialize the losses, and this will 'soften' the recession in some ways, but also prolong it. Longer term, I see the US going left politically (just a matter of demographics), and as such look for higher taxes and more entitlements. I think we'll look a lot more like Europe in a decade or two. I still like stocks longer term, and real estate once the price has adjusted (several years away). Suspect we'll have a few more 'bubbles' before things really go socialist. A 'black swan' event could really mix it up, short term, though (another terrorist attack, eco-disaster like another Katrina or big earthquake, war expansion)

Mule, he is on my ignore list because he does not contribute to the discussion. For example, in your quote of him, he stupidly suggests that our creditors are going to call our loans. Won't happen. If the US economy collapses, it is not going to impact the rest of the world in a positive way.

We are in for tough times, and I fear we will begin resembling Europe more and more, we are in for a long recession or depression. Eventually it all falls to pieces, because of the entitlement programs growing, and the number of people actually kicking in money shrinking.

It is all just a matter of time. Eventually, unreasonable socialists, like superman or his buddies, will outnumber reasonable folks and democracy will take its course.

Pisses me off. The best and brightest around the world want to move and work here and we get fruit peddlers and street vendors. They get the front of the line because they are the third wife's brother. The he gets to sponsor his ten kids. Tobra is right - one big welfare state with everyone getting their share and nobody working to paying for it all..

So you deduce that our creditors will never call our loans to them. Now that is true brilliance personified. Do you actually believe that they are buying them so that they will never cash them in? Don't quit your day job to go into finance.

However, maybe our creditors are spending their money on our bonds just so that they can build card houses out of them for display during cocktail parties. Right?;)

BTW, the reason you ignore people is that you cannot respond to logical questions (such as right here) and that you often box yourself into a corner and it's easier to hide. Live with it.

The world's going to end in 2013, right? What the hell, let it ride baby!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205181957.jpg

Did I just stumble into a network news channel?

Best,

Kurt

Sorry guys. US manufacturing is just starting to pick up. BMW just announced they're expanding the SC plant and ****ing production there. The medium sized three are shifting European production to the US because it's cheaper to produce here and import back to Europe. The low dollar is coming back to help our manufacturing sector, although it's a blow to our ego and makes traveling tough. Most of our trade imballance with China is caused by the artificially steep exchange rate. This is similar to the fundamental change in the dollar's value that was experienced vis a vis the DMark in the 196s and 70s.

We're in the trough of a business cycle right now. It will all feel a lot better in the morning. When John McCain is in charge of counter terrorism operations and world diplomacy. How many jobs are created building a new carrier task force?

Actually, BMW, Porsche, Audi, and VW are all planning or contemplating building plants in the USA. Odd that the devalued dollar does have some benefits.

Let's ask Boeing. ;)

Pisses me off too. I read that Congress is going on a spring break. But before they do, they need to start taking on the 2009 budget. The problem is it contains BILLIONS AND BILLIONS more than the president asked for. Why cant it include BILLIONS AND BILLIONS less. These jack-asses always are good at spending somebody else's money. This overspending has got to stop. :mad:

Nothing odd about it. The devalued dollar sucks investment into the US. In any case, I'm heading back over to the PPOT board now. This CNN "the US is dying" bulletin board is self fulfilling and just plain depressing.

SmileWavy

The Sky Is Falling - The Sky Is Falling......

I am not too worried.....thankfully I was never into the game of buying 100k houses for 500k in overpriced areas of the country and instead decided to be happy with my simple house in the boonies that I paid off early. If the ***** ever hits the fan, I will survive just fine, although the wussification of America is a bit depressing.

We Americans currently live in the most powerful country on the face of the earth and I doubt the socialist types will be able to completely destroy it in my lifetime.

PoP, let's say you had $100k sitting around idle. You need to dispense it properly to prepare for the long-term. Where do you put it? We're not talking about short-term gains or hedging, and we aren't necessarily talking about investments. It could be anything, but you must be looking for the long-term (no corvettes, K).

Education?
New business?
Equipment or supplies?
Equities?
Investment real estate?
Tax leins?
Timeshare @ brothel?

Please, no rants. Just the facts.

Yeah, it's all probably just a false alert and gross exaggeration.

David Walker (just quit as Bush's Comptroller General) had a great column today that indicated the economic reality of the USA. He said that our nation's total unfunded liabilities now translates to an IOU of about $450,000 for every American family.

But hey, that skys still up there. Right Baron?

"The sky is falling" type stuff. People were running it in the More Bad RE News thread years ago.

As that thread showed, sometimes you can't avoid or prevent problems by simply ignoring them or pretending they don't exist.

Now this would have never happened with Richard Nixon in control now would it.

Fine man, fine man.

Well for a start Bin Laden would have gone missing on the way back from the local deli and poor ole Sadam, he would have been reconised for the good guy he actually is (was).

Question #2---- and why are we in this handbasket?

Well, some say it's because of fine government leadership...but that'as just a rumor.;)

Do you vote?

I actually voted for Favre but that damn Brady guy from the cheater team got the MVP award. Why do you ask? :p