Is Terrorism That Big A Problem?
 

This quote from a French Pelican could lead us to believe we are over reacting. Maybe france has a better approach. Read this column from Daniel Pipes.
The 751 No-Go Zones of France

by Daniel Pipes
Weblog
November 14, 2006

They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones, with the even more antiseptic acronym ZUS, and there are 751 of them as of last count. They are convienently listed on one long webpage, complete with street demarcations and map delineations.

What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not control. They range from two zones in the medieval town of Carcassone to twelve in the heavily Muslim town of Marseilles, with hardly a town in France lacking in its ZUS. The ZUS came into existence in late 1996 and according to a 2004 estimate, nearly 5 million people live in them.

Comment: A more precise name for these zones would be Dar al-Islam, the place where Muslims rule. (November 14, 2006)

Nov. 28, 2006 update: For an insight into how bad things are, the police in Lyons demonstrated on Nov. 9, denouncing "violence against the forces of order." Things have reached a pretty sad state when the police have to demonstrate in the streets against the criminals.

Jan. 5, 2008 update: In a remarkable statement, Michael Nazir-Ali, the Pakistani-born bishop of Rochester, writes in the Daily Telegraph about the situation in Great Britain:

there has been a worldwide resurgence of the ideology of Islamic extremism. One of the results of this has been to further alienate the young from the nation in which they were growing up and also to turn already separate communities into "no-go" areas where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability. Those of a different faith or race may find it difficult to live or work there because of hostility to them.

Jan. 16, 2008 update: Paul Belien of Brussels Journal provides an update on the ZUS, connecting them to organized crime in a way that helps explain police reluctance to intervene:

In May [2007], the French voters elected Mr. [Nicolas] Sarkozy as president because he had promised to restore the authority of the Republic over France's 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people - 8 percent of the population - live. During his first months in office he has been too busy with other activities, such as selling nuclear plants to Libya and getting divorced. While the French media publish nude pictures of the future (third) Mrs. Sarkozy, the situation in the ZUS has remained as "sensitive" as before.

People get mugged, even murdered, in the ZUS, but the media prefer not to write about it. When large-scale rioting erupts and officers and firemen are attacked, the behavior of the thugs is condoned with references to their "poverty" and to the "racism" of the indigenous French. The French media never devote their attention to the bleak situation of intimidation and lawlessness in which 8 percent of the population, including many poor indigenous French, are forced to live. Muslim racism toward the "infidels" is never mentioned.

Xavier Raufer, a former French intelligence officer who heads the department on organized crime and terrorism at the Institute of Criminology of the University of Paris II, thinks that organized crime has a lot to do with the indifference of the French establishment.

The ZUS are centers of drug trafficking. According to a recent report of the French government's Interdepartmental Commission to Combat Drug Traffic and Addiction (MILDT) 550,000 people in France consume cannabis on a daily basis and 1.2 million on a regular basis. The annual cannabis consumption amounts to 208 tons for a market value of 832 million euros ($1.2 billion in U.S. dollars). MILDT estimates that there are between 6,000 and 13,000 small "entrepreneurs" and between 700 and 1,400 wholesalers who make a living out of dealing cannabis. The wholesalers earn up to 550,000 euros ($820,000) per year. Since they operate from within the ZUS the drug dealers are beyond the reach of the French authorities.

The ZUS exist not only because Muslims wish to live in their own areas according to their own culture and their own Shariah laws, but also because organized crime wants to operate without the judicial and fiscal interference of the French state. In France, Shariah law and mafia rule have become almost identical.

Mar. 8, 2008 update: Britain has "ethnic" no-go areas for military personnel in uniform, the Times (London) reports today at "Military uniforms in public ‘risk offending minorities'."

Certain areas in Britain will still have to remain off-limits for servicemen and women in military gear, despite the Government's desire for a nationwide uniform free-for-all, senior RAF sources acknowledged yesterday. … one senior air force source said that military commanders had to be aware of potential problems of personnel wearing combat and other military clothes in the street. "We're aware of the sensitivities, for example, in some ethnic minority communities which is why we need to have a dialogue with local authorities and police if we don't want to cause a problem."

Mar. 16, 2008 update: John Cornwell, a leading historian and commentator on religion, is generally skeptical of Nazir-Ali's no-go areas but finds that if anyplace fits the profile, it's Bury Park in Luton:

Luton, like other enclaves, has experienced a spate of incidents that look all too like attempts to make Bury Park a no-go area to non-Muslims. Between November of last year and last month there were 18 attacks – all registered by the police – on five non-Muslim homes in the area. One couple, Mr and Mrs Harrop, white residents in their eighties, have had bricks hurled through their windows. The home of Mrs Palmer, a widow of West Indian origin, aged 70, has been attacked four times; on one occasion a metal beer keg crashed through her bay window while she was watching TV.

Such attacks are not typical of the activities of the sort of radicals who preach a global Islamic state, or potential terrorists, who, according to one of my MI5 informants, merge into a background of "innocent normalcy" till the last minute. DCI Ian Middleton of Bedfordshire police says: "It's the perception of the victims that their Muslim neighbours are to blame, and we have to respect that. But we have our doubts." Middleton suspects, as does Margaret Moran, MP for Luton South, that the attacks could be the work of small groups of white or Muslim extremists, stirring up racial and inter-religious hatred for its own sake.

I was to come across comparable "no-go" incidents in other parts of Britain, such as threats against Muslim converts to Christianity, and attacks on visiting social workers and Salvation Army facilities.

This item is available on the DanielPipes.org website, at http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/709

I was in Paris last year during part of the riots by the members of "the religion of peace" and it was a difficult time. Nothing like a molotov cocktail to get your attention and the police simply could not control them the first few days.

Can we pls send crazy chic there to live? She would fit in and be happy with her brothers in the "religion of peace" over there in france.

This is just the first question. Is terrorism really a problem?

But even if you answer "yes," then the next question is how do we secure ourselves against this threat? Dubya thought it would be cute to make a splashy mess in Iraq. Even though he should have noticed that terrorism is a "hate" problem. It is a PR problem. When someone is accused of a crime and brought to trial, do they draw as much attention to themselves as possible? No. Dubya had the opportunity to define this as a military problem or a propaganda problem. Al Queda has continued to pursue this as a propaganda problem while Dubya has pretended it is a military problem. In the international game of "chess," Dubya has been defeated. America will be the loser.

Those of you who think our Iraq adventure will make America more secure......are incorrect. It will fuel the hatred fire.

Imagine. Imagine if we had focused all that energy on actual national security. Imagine if we had minded our own business and protected ourselves with intelligence and diplomacy.

Instead, we have made ourselves into the Perfect Target. Dubya has spent billions and thousands of American lives to achieve the goal of making America more vulnerable. Thanks a lot.....Idiot.

Amazing. You managed to miss the point completely!

Person A list the leading causes of death - terrorism notably absent; you cut-and-pasted some rambling diatribe about 'no go zones' - who really missed the point here?

Amazing. You managed to miss the point completely too!

no terroriszm isnt a problem at all.............................

i've been living with terrorizm(terrorism) since i was 14 YEARS OLD WHEN I WAS IN MUNICH GERMANY AT THE 1972 OLYMPICS WHEN THE %^&%* POO WENT DOWN!

no terrorizm isnt a problem until the person next to you blows the *&%&%^ out of themselves or the car /truck/plane your on or next BLOWS INTO A BAZZILLION ******* PIECES............

then i would have to say its a REAL $%^&$ GRIPPING ISSUE!

pay ME $100000 a year tax free,all expenses and i will gladly/joyfully go hunt terrorists in a HIGHLY UNETHICAL MANNER equal to their methods.


old west sheriffs always got their man.............THE MOSSAD ALWAYS GETS THEIR MAN!..........always!

Yes terrorism is a big problem...

You need to be more specific. Are you asking if Americans consider terrorism to be a big problem here in the states? While travelling abroad? What?

Poor Mule, he never gets out of Tennessee.

If france wants to completely give away their country one piece at a time, that's their choice. But for anyone to suggest that we should do the same thing by sticking our heads in the sand is not only misguided, it is dangerous thinking.


To say that the "religion of peace' is not a threat while it is taking over a country (and continent) to the point where it is too dangerous for the police to enter those areas is mind-boggling.

The point is that appeasement is a plan for takeover. Sorry some of you found it difficult.

terrorism is not a problem..but is a control word to keep people in fear...so they can be stripped of their freedoms and told what to do.

you're going to listen to Pipes?

He graduated from Harvard you know...

Is he making sense? He's not blaming his white grandmother!

So you think this kind of stuff would never/could never happen here. From today's NY Post:

March 20, 2008 -- An assistant rabbi whose yarmulke was swiped by Arab men turned the tables on his tormentors, chasing one into a Brooklyn street where the thief was struck by a car and arrested, police said yesterday.

Uria Ohana, 25, a member of the Chabad Lubavitch movement, told The Post he entered a subway station alone at Fourth Avenue and Ninth Street in Park Slope at 6:20 p.m. Tuesday.

Ohana said he went through a turnstile and spotted a group of young Arabic men sitting on a bench.

"I wasn't afraid of anything. I didn't think anything would happen," he said.

But something did.

Ohana said he felt a hand grab his brown yarmulke off his head.

He then spun around and came face to face with one of the men, Ali Hussein, 18, police said.

"There were no words exchanged. I decided to chase him to get my yarmulke back," Ohana said.

Hussein's friends joined in the foot pursuit, screaming "Allah-hu Akbar," which means "God is great."

They ran outside and Hussein darted into the street, where he was hit by a blue Volvo and toppled to the ground, cops said.

"He couldn't move. He broke his leg. He was crying," said Ohana.

Hussein's friends then jumped into a suburban GMC and sped away.

Police arrested Hussein for alleged aggravated harassment as a hate crime.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03202008/news/regionalnews/yarmulke_yahoos_best_not_mess_with_this__102740.ht m

He should have pulled a Dirty Harry & stood on his broken leg while he took his yarmulke back.

HOLY CRAP - I guy get's his hat stolen.... things are much worse than I thought... Where was the outrage when the 4 hispanic kids kicked my azz in middle school cause I was white?

Edit - ZUS areas in France. Pathetic. But I thought this thread was about terrorism.

American politics depends on lemmings just like you.

If you have all the mad skillz you've claimed in previous posts, why aren't you already working for Blackwater?

We have enough homegrown dirtbags thank you very much. This is assault. This POS should be deported. And US born and bred punks are not known for this:

"Hussein's friends joined in the foot pursuit, screaming "Allah-hu Akbar," which means "God is great." "

This is how it starts. Are we going to have "ZUS" areas in the USA one day???

Thank God we have some stalwart, indipendent thinkers such as yourself!http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...ng/lol-045.gif

Need stronger cars....

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Good one Tim!

re: mad skillz.....i dont claim..........i have done! thats why my name is there for everyone to see. unlike others that have super secret password names and hide behind a screen.

plus im 50 years old and if im correct 37-40 is the cutoff age for blackwater. but reality is...... old age and treachery wins hands down over dumbass youth!


this crap that terrorizm isnt an issue is beyond belief to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

at age 14 to see people running for their lives, ambulances thruout the olympic village in munich, huey helos EVERYWHERE! everybody in ADIDAS uniforms carrying HK full auto G-3's and MP-5's, left an IMPRESSION ON ME FOR LIFE!

its not something i EVER WANT TO EXPERIENCE EVER AGAIN!

yes i will racial profile.

yes if i see ANYONE AROUND A PLANE AT WORK @5-6AM i dont recognize i will call 911 and engage them at gunpoint.

this isnt a joke...........its reality for at least 2-3 more generations of these fanatics. or until everyone of them blow themselves up or is killed.

as long as unethical arms merchants/countries are around, as long as there are weapons and explosives for these morons to get their hands on, they will keep pulling stunts.

the POS that pulled off 9/11 have become martyrs and now the next group will attempt the same daring move to achieve the same end result.

widebody i dont know how many jewish friends you have if any. i have worked with quite a few vets from the 6 day war. one was a tank commander who had 3 tanks shot out from underneath him in ONE ******* DAY! all of them have been in the IDF(israeli defense force-mandatory). and all of them say the same thing.............it will go on until we kill them all or they kill all of us! and we are not going to allow that to ever happen!

my take on this is you better read CRUSADES 101 and see how history is repeating itself again amongst fanatical muslims. hell the bastids just killed a cardinal of the catholic church in iraq as a symbolic jesture. that even got the popes attention.

this isnt countries at war over land/gold/water/oil/food/women...............its a religious war . thats as much of a NO BRAINER as the sun coming up in the east! and if AQ /TALIBAN/HEZBOLLAH havent proven that yet to any of you .......well...........your a MORON!

if ya aint a muslim............you can convert.............if you dont convert............WE WILL KILL YOU! if yer jewish we're gonna kill you just for drill!

sorry..... i dont subscribe to that religion nor any for that fact. im a RECOVERING CATHOLIC! who has had catholicizm stuffed down my throat and out my arse since kindergarden all the way thru jesuit college!

religion which is supposed to be so pure, so holy, so reverant, so personnal has now set the stage for the killing fields. go figure that one out! give me a break!

nobody will ever make me subscribe to any religion but the one i choose. and thats for me to know and YOU never to find out.............cuz its personal.

during the war in boznia i actually had a conversation with a priest on a flight back to phx, who later became the bishop of the phx catholic diocese and asked him if religion is so pure, so holy, why are people killing one another over it?????


the answer this guy who had mega degrees gave me.............."i honestly dont have an answer for that question. i wish i did!"

sooooo............with that in mind lets use this example. i come to your racetrack and i tell you yer gunna run a K&N filter and if you dont im gonna kill you and your family. two things are gunna occur...........you put a K&N on and resume your life. or you dont and start spraying bullets my way. and then i start spraying 40rd sticks from my HK at you. hmmmm..........

that my friends is why america has FREEDOM OF RELIGION . thereby avoiding all of this STUPID POO that is going on now.

osamas next move will be one of brilliance. it will more than likely occur in the heartland to show our soft underside, the method will be simple. it will involve a large loss of life and it will be cheap. ie. dirty bomb etc.

now just for giggles why dont you add up all the missing NUKE-LAR fissionable material missing from russia, and just imagine what a dirty bomb easily made, easily hidden will do to an area.

lets use phx as an example. light off dirty bomb at phx suns arena and the entire downtown is wasted for the next gazzillion freeking half-lifes of whatever freeking material they used. hmmmm i think that will get anybodys attention as well as everybodys attention. i think it will be probably be the freeking lead off story for some damn time to come! like 25000 years or some stupid figure thats beyond any normal reasoning!

so to end this cuz i have to make sure my quad 50's are lubed/locked and loaded on my assault p-car.................

i would much rather we kill these fanatics in the middle east than on my freeking street! corpses here in the dez draw lots of nasty BUZZARDS QUICK CUZ OF DA STINK!

We are all targets for these arseholes. The west is under siege. Australians bombed in Asia, Brits bombed at home, Americans are targeted everywhere. Is terrorism a problem, gee I don't know.

I'm surprised that no one has addressed the white elephant that RPKESQ has led into the room with his comment.

"Top causes of death in America:
(1) Diseases of the heart heart attack (mainly) 28.5%
(2) Malignant neoplasms cancer 22.8%
(3) Cerebrovascular disease stroke 6.7%
(4) Chronic lower respiratory disease emphysema, chronic bronchitis 5.1%
(5) Unintentional injuries accidents 4.4%
(6) Diabetes mellitus diabetes 3.0%
(7) Influenza and pneumonia flu & pneumonia 2.7%
(8) Alzheimer's Disease Alzheimer's senility 2.4%
(9) Nephritis and Nephrosis kidney disease 1.7%
(10) Septicemia systemic infection 1.4%
(11) Intentional self-harm suicide 1.3%
(12) Chronic Liver/Cirrhosis liver disease 1.1%
(13) Essential Hypertension "

For years, the US Government has been spending billions of dollars on research and prevention of all thirteen of the items listed here. To date, ALL of these major causes of death in America are still thriving. These are all wars we continue to lose.

Perhaps what is needed, in true liberal fashion, is for the US to surrender, cut and run and stop spending money on such fruitless endeavors. We've wasted too many billions, nay, make that TRILLIONS of dollars fighting these wars!

Randy

Okay, so "Death by terrorist" didn't make the list . .. ergo, terrorism not a problem worth worring about.

But wait "Death from fighting terrorism" didn't make the list EITHER.



So, what's the point? ..I think that it has to be; some OVER REACT over miltary defence.

wow; logic. ;)

Wow. This is a superb example of sloppy thinking.
We have improved the cure rate, survival rate and prevention of all of these causes of death. Not to mention auto deaths, aviation deaths, bathroom accidental deaths, etc.

So you see all of the money and efforts have made enormous improvements.

And yet, you think I’ve pointed out a “white elephant”? What a brainiac!

Here I am an American combat veteran, an American taxpayer, working for an American company in France, where I live. Some of you patriotic idiots apparently think that because I note where I live, I am some foreign French person. Please, let’s not broadcast your bigotry and John Birch type of mindless patriotism to the whole world.

Contrary to what you think, Europe has had long experience in Terrorism and have successfully fought and won against it several times in the last century. France is not your enemy, please look up how France responded to 9/11 and Afghanistan. That doesn’t mean they swallow all the same BS that you do. Nor does that mean they hate you. It does mean they have their own opinion based on experience in the Middle East that consists of several more centuries’ worth than America has.

As far as the riots in France go. Anyone who thinks they are religious based is wrong. It is racially based. America has had its own “do not travel zones” in many of its major cities (some as recently as the 1992 in Los Angeles where I was shot during the riots), all of South Central was a no-go zone for the Police and Fire Depts. So try not to paint the troubles in France as a failure that America has not suffered several times over.

Terrorism is a very low risk to the vast majority of people in Europe and America. Osama has won most of the battles strategically since 9/11. Just like the Viet Cong / NVA won the political battles during the Viet Nam war (no matter how many you killed and where!). When America lashes out in the manner like Iraq, it loses. Any student of world history can provide numerous examples to illustrate this point. The two ways to defeat terrorism have been known for several millenniums. America has chosen a non-workable method both in Viet Nam and in Iraq.

This was pointed out before the Iraq war and has been pointed out several times since the start of the war by both civilian and military experts, all to no avail. Trying to end the war as soon as possible and to start attacking terrorism in a more proactive way, would create far more security than the present course. And having the balls to say this and try to change the course of this war is the height of true patriotism.

Did you know that Saddam's killing fields have stopped? As did the wanton torture of innocent Iraqi citizens at the hands of his two sons? No more people being run through plastic shredders!

Did you know that 47 countries have re-established their embassies in Iraq ? Or that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 new schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been completed in Iraq? Did you know that Iraq 's higher educational structure consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers, all currently operating? Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment. Did you know that Iraq 's Air Force consists of three operational squadrons, which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft (under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion? Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers? Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq ?They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics,15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations,22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations? Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October 2007.

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%? Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

"So you see all of the money and efforts have made enormous improvements."

Yep! White with a yellow stripe down it's back! :p

Randy

Wow, why am I not surprised!

Long experience with terrorism? Yes I totally agree that they have sold weapons to many of the terrorists and countries who support terrorism for many, many years. Iran, Iraq (before and during the embargo), the PLO, Libya, Syria.... the list goes on and on but yes they have supported terrorism with anyone who could pay for the weapons.

France after 9/11 was our ally? What are you smoking? They do have some troops in Afgan but a very small amount and rarely in harms way.

Several more centuries experience? Yes and now they are a society and country in decline yet they refuse to admit it.

Obviously, you haven't done any research. Are you scarred of the truth? Try learning some facts about France, before putting your foot in your mouth. America sold weapons to Iraq by the boat load until Kuwait. So we enabled Saddam as much as anyone (America has sold arms to many tyrants, so don’t try to pass off the lie of helping the oppressed people, look up what America has done in South and Central America, try starting with the banana wars). Europeans understood that Iraq under Saddam was a buffer to extreme fundamentalism. America has ruined that buffer. Try doing some research and you will find that France set up an intelligence clearing house to combine all the European intelligence agencies to funnel intelligence data to the US. They did this on their own right after 9/11 and continue to provide this service to America. Yes, France is a strong friend of the USA.

America has screwed the pooch in Iraq and is paying for it. And will soon start paying more in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And as for this gem "and now they are a society and country in decline yet they refuse to admit it". Priceless.
Where should we start?
220 MPH luxury train service (just like in the USA, right?)
Had a phone system with much of the capability of the internet many years ago (just like the USA, right?)
Has the world's first commercially viable space launch system (NASA is still reliant of government handouts)
Has the only aircraft company to challenge Boeing successfully (who did NG partner with?)
Health care better than the USA (#1 rated in the world by WHO)
My health care costs in France are $895 per year including my wife with no deductible and no co-payment (includes optical, dental and maternity). (Just like the USA?)
Highest birthrate in Western Europe.
Only country to utilize nuclear power correctly (standardized power plant design, not one offs like the USA). Sell excess electrical power to its neighbors (New nuclear power plant design now in production, far more advanced than anything built in the States)
Only country besides the USA to design and operate a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.
Etc., etc., etc.

Yeah, that sounds like France is failing.

Research? What f_cking research? Your knowledge of the world is extraordinarily limited.

I see you can't answer with logic, so you resort to simple insults. That about fits your lack of knowledge. So your contention is that after all this building and success we have had in Iraq, they are much better off? Try researching the latest power supply percentages (most of those schools have no power), the lack of integrating both Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites into the military and police forces, the massive corruption we have created in their country, the lack of freedom for women we have enabled, the rise of Sharia law, etc.

It is hardly all one sided there. And where is the plan for leaving? You know a simple project plan with milestones and tasks laid out? Haven't seen one? Neither has anybody else.

I resort to simple insults? Yeah, right, "brainiac"! Get a clue.

Now who's the one who can't answer with logic? You really should pay more attention to the things you type...you big doo-doo head :rolleyes:

Randy

This is your reply. Just this nonsenses? Please point out the fallacies of my logic. Bet you can't!:rolleyes:

So the "race based" riots just happen to involve the "middle eastern" race, who co-incidentally, happen to be muslim? Are you really going to try & make a case that France does not have a muslim probelm? You might convince some of these left wing nitwits, but not me. If I was blind & deaf maybe. But as long as I can read & hear, the facts will prove your fantasy to be just that.

So police & fire don't go to areas of the USA? You must have eaten some bad snails & one is eating your brain.

Of that "highest birth rate" you tout, how many are muslim?

Yeah, sure you're right. You insult me, I insult you in return and then you blame me for insulting you. Nope, can't find any fallicies in your logic at all.

Yawn...I'm bored. I think I'll go give the neighbor's cat a bath. SmileWavy

Randy

that is not amazing

Seems to me muslims tried pulling this sort of thing in Oz and got their dicks knocked in the dirt

The only person or group that Bush has made safer with his mismanaged and illegal war in Iraq is OBL and AQ. They have never had a better friend than Bush, and OBL has never been this safe since he began his terrorism against the west.

No attacks & life in a cave, yep life is great for obl.