The USAirways incident today

[Normy]

Apparently today, a USAirways flight encountered a situation where a gun was fired in the cockpit.

Right now, there is little available as to what happened, but it appears that the gun was fired completely within the confines of the cockpit, and it also appears that it was fired from the left side to the right. There is a bullet hole on the right cockpit wall, and there is a hole on the right side of the fuselage.

There is no word if this was due to a cockpit intrusion. Nor is there any word as to whether the discharge was deliberate or accidental.

Right now, there is a program called "Federal Flight Deck Officer" which allows a pilot engaged in FAA regulation part 121 air carrier operations to attend training in New Mexico and receive certification to carry a firearm in the cockpit. This is becoming fairly commonplace- there are a LOT of FFDO's these days.

I am a cockpit crewmember by trade, and work for a major part 121 cargo airline. Although I am not an FFDO, many of the people I fly with are, and the reason that I haven't done this yet has to do with time: they want a week for the training.

I have a few reservations with this program in general:

I want to become an FFDO. I have a perfect record, and I think the program is something that ought to be MANDATORY for anyone who flies part 121. Why? Because of the careful background checks, that's why. Right now, nearly anyone can get 1500 hours of flight time, an ATP [another thing that is WAY too easy to acquire!], and then if they simply buy a fax machine...they can fax their resume to a commuter airline and 6 weeks of training later...they are now in the cockpit of a jet. Hello? What kind of security screening is that? The FAA background check can easily be circumvented via expungement and/or hacking, so there is the possibilty that a Timothy McVeigh might be able to find his way into a cockpit. We need better screening for airline pilots; a few weeks ago, I ran across a 24 year old guy who was a new-hire at Continental Jet-link; he had 500 hours when he was hired...

That's bad, but here's worse, and here's why I think the FFDO program will cause a big mistake one day, and will, I suspect, probably be recinded:

I suspect that the Federal government doesn't do a good enough job monitoring the current mental state of the FFDO's in the system.

-Auburn Callaway attempted to take over a Fedex DC-10 one day. He was an Air Force pilot who's record as a pilot was barely acceptable. He lied in order to get into Fedex, and flew for a while at the cargo carrier. Well, his past caught up with him eventually, and Fedex was about to fire him. His response to this was to attempt suicide by flying the DC-10 into the headquarters building off of Hacks Cross road in Memphis after killing the crew. He nearly did just that- he had a scuba spear-gun and a hammer, and he used each of them on the crew. Unfortunately for him, the human body is MUCH sturdier than he thought. We are a "blood sponge". As long as that blood sponge isn't grossly cut...then we can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. But if you cut us in a way that large amounts of blood are lost [as in being shot], we quickly die from what amount to tiny injuries. We can have the ***** beat out of us for hours and live, but if a tiny hole is made in our bodies? We die right now!

The "next Auburn Callaway" won't bring a spear-gun and a hammer; he'll be legally carrying a Smith & Wesson. He or She will have developed a "chemical imbalance" in their brain, and they will have lost their mind. Just like the strange 15-year olds who shoot up schools, these guys will shoot up the cockpit and then fly the plane into something that it shouldn't be flown into.

That is why I think that the FFDO program won't last. Instead of a spear-gun, you are just giving him a real gun. It is only a matter of time before something really bad happens, unless this program is drastically changed.

Sorry in advance, and I don't want this to be an indictment to the whole FFDO program...just its' current form.

N!

[slodave]

This happened yesterday and it was reported as accidental, but the pilot was grounded. I saw it on CNN last night, but read the article in the L.A. Times this morning.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pilot25mar25,1,2787292.story

[Tobra]

I heard one where a grandmother turned on her oven and some kid got shot, and another where a guy accidentally shot his wife trying to make a hole in the wall for his cable

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I heard one where a grandmother turned on her oven and some kid got shot, and another where a guy accidentally shot his wife trying to make a hole in the wall for his cable

I saw the headlines about the wife shot by husband, "drilling" a hole with a gun.

I've heard of shotguns for loosening stubborn lug nuts, but for running cable?

[Joeaksa]

It was a US Air pilot. Photos of the cockpit where the bullet hit inside and exited the fuselage have been on the news media outlets.

What this idiot was doing is a good question but unless the weapon can be shown to be at fault, this FFDO needs to at the least be re-trained, or lose his authorization. I would love to hear the cockpit voice recorder and see what really happened. Bet its been erased already...

[varmint]

l.a. times said the weapon was a HK .40

i'm only have a vague idea of this gun. but they do not go off all by themselves. major idiocy had to be involved.

[M.D. Holloway]

In an infinite universe there are infinite possibilities...

I bet he was showing it to an Attendent and got carried away - thankfully no one else got carried away...in a stretcher!

[Sonic dB]

with all of that training, this happens...hmm and people want all students and teachers to be carrying too? hmmmmm

[widgeon13]

Has anyone really heard whether this person was an FFDO?? or is that just a given.

[rattlsnak]

>>I want to become an FFDO. I have a perfect record, and I think the program is something that ought to be MANDATORY for anyone who flies part 121. Why? Because of the careful background checks, that's why. Right now, nearly anyone can get 1500 hours of flight time, an ATP [another thing that is WAY too easy to acquire!], and then if they simply buy a fax machine...they can fax their resume to a commuter airline and 6 weeks of training later...they are now in the cockpit of a jet. Hello? What kind of security screening is that? The FAA background check can easily be circumvented via expungement and/or hacking, so there is the possibilty that a Timothy McVeigh might be able to find his way into a cockpit. We need better screening for airline pilots; a few weeks ago, I ran across a 24 year old guy who was a new-hire at Continental Jet-link; he had 500 hours when he was hired...<<

Well, not exactly,. 121 guys are indeed required (even regional carriers) to go through extensive background checks complete with finger printing, etc, before they are hired.

500 hours? yes they are so desperate for pilots that most carriers mins are 500 hours with 25 multi now. 1,000 hour guys are high timers! My things gave changed.!

[legion]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

with all of that training, this happens...hmm and people want all students and teachers to be carrying too? hmmmmm

And no one got hurt.

Please explain how your half-assertian has any relevance to the debate over CCW on campus.

[id10t]

Part of it may have to do with how they must carry - in a holster with a lock thru the trigger guard...

Also, you may not be aware, but it wasn't long ago that pilots were required to carry when carrying US mail on the plane.

Lots of other good info on this at:

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2008/03/gun-accident-in-airliner-cockpit-was.html

And at:

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2007/12/tsa-arrogance-threatens-safety-of-air.html

[widgeon13]

That's beautiful, a padlock on a handgun in the holster, that's going to do a lot of good when Mohamed is breaking into the cockpit, now let me see what was the combination, no wait that is my pin for my checking acct. Oh shlt, I'll just throw it at him, but wait, I have to unbuckle my belt, oh shlt my pants will fall down.

TSA= Too Stupid to Ask

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by id10t

Also, you may not be aware, but it wasn't long ago that pilots were required to carry when carrying US mail on the plane.

That I know of, the above law is still in effect.

Widgeon,

He had to be a FFDO or he would not be allowed to get a weapon on board.

The .40 cal is the standard issue weapon and only one allowed to be used by the FFOD guys. Also they shoot a special round for use inside an aircraft in flight. Nuff said on that...

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

...Nuff said on that...

Woe woe Cowboy Joe! I needs to know mo! Why a .40? And this special round yo speak of, designed not to pen the airframe? Whats it send out a shytload of shot like a snake gun?

[rudderboost]

Frangible bullets- usually Glaser. They're scored so they break apart into several pieces if they his something solid.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I think there's a version of that called the "AirGuard" that is used by Air Marshals. I'm sure it could depressurize a plane if fired in the wrong place, but the idea is that it has a lower muzzle velocity and disperses the energy over a wider area to prevent accidentally penetrating the fuselage.

[air-cool-me]

a few weeks ago, I ran across a 24 year old guy who was a new-hire at Continental Jet-link; he had 500 hours when he was hired...

That's bad, but here's worse

The "next Auburn Callaway" won't bring a spear-gun and a hammer; he'll be legally carrying a Smith & Wesson.

I thought he could have brought his own smith and wesson. Im sure he could bypass security being a FE... but he wanted the injures to look like blunt force trauma from the crash.. but i dont know much. What stops me from bringing my own into any airport that gives me a SIDA badge?

Already if a pilot wanted to kill you and everyone on board... he already has the tools.. wait for his leg... wait for about 500ft... rip the controls over... stand on the rudder... over she goes.

Would you be fast enough to stop him? would you even recognize what he was doing untill it was too late? I would be more worried about the 500 hour pilots that could end up sitting next to you.

That is why I think that the FFDO program won't last. Instead of a spear-gun, you are just giving him a real gun. It is only a matter of time before something really bad happens, unless this program is drastically changed.

I suspect that the Federal government doesn't do a good enough job monitoring the current mental state of the FFDO's in the system.

Maybe you should go through the program first, after you have the credibility to criticize it, become a champion of its change. I agree the program has its problems.. With your help maybe they could fix some of them?