Used car buying advice needed.

89911 · 03-29-2008, 12:51 PM

I am in the market for a sedan that I can drive when I can't use the 911. This is by no means a needed car since I already have a Honda van and a Sequoia SUV. I've narrowed it down to a 2001-2003 M5. Pretty rare, temperamental cars, but since I doubt I'll put more then 2k a year on it, I willing to take the risk. The car in question is a 2002 black on black with 66k. It is stilled covered by a aftermarket warranty the owner (who is a car salesman) for another two years. It is actually a decent warranty that I bought when my BMW went out of its original. He is asking $30k for it, maybe $29. The books NADA, KBB, say this is inline, but my friends in the used car industry check the auctions and the are telling me this is way too much. They are wholesaling in the low $20's.

My question is, what does this say about what the car is worth? They are pretty rare cars, (maybe 1-2 thousand that year). How do you decide what is the right price, or if you like the car, just buy it? I can't see 6 year old V8's that get 12 mpg being a huge commodity when gas hits $4/gallon. As a comparison, my 2002 BMW X54.6is was blue booked at about $31k. I listed it for a while with no takers. It was wholesaling at the auction for $27k. Thats what they gave me at trade in. Opinions welcome.

By the way, the M5 is a crazy car. So different then the 911. 400hp and the ability to chirp the wheels in the first 3 gears.

Oh Haha · 03-29-2008, 01:20 PM

You should post this on the BMW forums here and even at Bimmerfest. Those guys know the BMW marque inside and out.

I would love an M5 but it's not large enough so we went with the wagon.

89911 · 03-29-2008, 01:23 PM

No offense to the bmw forums here, but the last I checked, the 5 series bbs averaged about 1 post/day

This really isn't a bmw question, but a used car question. How do you come up with what a used car is worth?

LeeH · 03-29-2008, 02:43 PM

It's a rare car, but also has limited demand. The last M5 that actually sold on Ebay went for $24,902. There haven't been a lot of them sold at auction. One sold wholesale here in Phoenix for $26250 with 48K miles in February.

Personally, I like the sound of this on on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130207904298
It's owned by the service manager of a BMW dealership. It's a 'no reserve' auction currently at $23,200. Could be a good deal if it doesn't go much higher.

89911 · 03-29-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeH

It's a rare car, but also has limited demand. The last M5 that actually sold on Ebay went for $24,902. There haven't been a lot of them sold at auction. One sold wholesale here in Phoenix for $26250 with 48K miles in February.

Personally, I like the sound of this on on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130207904298
It's owned by the service manager of a BMW dealership. It's a 'no reserve' auction currently at $23,200. Could be a good deal if it doesn't go much higher.

Thats about where I see it. Sometimes the seller needs to become reacquainted with reality after you give them a price. I told him the mid 20's is where I'm at. Your right, it is has an extremely limited audience, especially since its a 6 speed. I bet if I bide my time, I'll be getting a call soon. He's already called me twice.

LeeH · 03-29-2008, 07:17 PM

You say that the current owner is a car salesman. Does that mean it's his personal car or is it one he's selling for profit? If he claims it is his personal car, then ask him how long he's owned it. Verify this through Carfax or the last registration date on the title.

89911 · 03-29-2008, 09:18 PM

Its his car and he has owned it for a few years. He has all the records from BMW for service. This is part of my dilemma in that I'm purchasing the car from a used car salesman. To me, it sounds like he overpaid for it and it depreciated quicker then his payments so he is upside down for the price. At least that is what he claims. He gave it to me for the day and I only drove it for an hour. The first stop was to a body guy I know to check it out. The second was to a high end dealer to get their idea of a value. I took it back and gave him my offer. We will see if he calls.

onewhippedpuppy · 03-30-2008, 03:57 AM

Book value for rare cars are often irrelevant. The values tend to vary, and there's not enough sales to get a good statistical average. If you want a good feel, look at what they're selling for on Bimmerforums, Bimmerfest, M5board, etc. Watch the threads, see how low the prices go before they finally sell. I think that's a more accurate depiction of real value.

Used car salesman huh? That would be a paradox. I'd have trouble believing anything he said, even though it's his personal car.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Rarity becomes irrelevant when there is a steady, ample supply of something and a tiny, shrinking demand for it. They will depreciate down to under $10 grand in a very short time, IMO, as cost of ownership goes postal w/ fuel and maintenance+ insurance.

Those cars were the shizzle when they came out 8 years ago, but there was never a big market for them and they are now quite dated compared to the latest M-series offerings. For better or worse, M5s are status cars and the market is for new ones.

I would guess that a person could lease a new 335, (which I would much rather drive), for less than owning an old M5 if both were used as DDs. I know that you are not using it as a DD, but put yourself in the buyer's shoes, resale-wise. They are a maintenance $$ sinkhole, (brakes/tires/electronics/etc.), and new BMWs are 100% maintenance-free down to brake pads for 4 years.

I personally love the M5 that was immediately prior to this one, (mid-'90s), but apparently they were not great cars and also $$ pits. The real fuel efficiency of these cars is ******* awful if you use your right foot at all, (and otherwise what is the point), my buddy had a new M5 in 2000 and complained about MPG then. And he was making $500k a year and premium was ~$1.60 @ gallon. Stuff to ponder...

Steve Carlton · 03-30-2008, 07:15 AM

It's a sh!itload of car for the high $20Ks. For a car like that, the difference between a known quantity and an auction car is huge. Normally, I'd say market value is $3K over wholesale, but on a car like that I'd say $5K or more. If the warranty is truly transferable to you, there's a big value there as well.

89911 · 03-30-2008, 11:20 AM

All points well taken. It's funny as I get older and actually have enough to buy one of these, my right brain is constantly talking back to me about how its a dumb move. I just cant fathom getting a new car for the small amout I will drive it. I actually looked at old M3 sedans also, but it is hard to find one with less then 100k and beat up. The old M5's are similar to old Porsches in that they really have most of their value to an enthusiast. The car is very nice. Even has a Dinan software upgrade and SS exhaust system done at a local BMW Dinan center.

RANDY P · RANDY P's Garage

make sure you get really low miles - there's a problem of carbon buildup causing SES light around 80K- just like the 993...

It's an expensive fix to do properly.

911Freak · 03-30-2008, 03:10 PM

Check Edmunds.com they have a very helpful Cost to Own data that breaks down the additional elements of owning these...also according to Consumer Reports the 5 series are plagued with problems.. in fact they have the M5 specificallt on their "cars to avoid" list from data aquired from M5 owners... I have a buddy who owns a early 2000 M5 and a newer M6, the M5 is hands down a hot rod, but requires high maintenence...

If you do your due-dilligence and still want to buy, atleast you'll have documentation to neg a better price and you'll know what your getting into...

Good Luck, and remember to get a PPI

my .02

Seahawk · 03-30-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

I would guess that a person could lease a new 335, (which I would much rather drive), for less than owning an old M5 if both were used as DDs. I know that you are not using it as a DD, but put yourself in the buyer's shoes, resale-wise...new BMWs are 100% maintenance-free down to brake pads for 4 years.

That is why I bought a 2006 325i for $26k (with 17k on the clock) after I totaled my 964...I don't need a rocket ship for a DD and the car is Pre-owned Certified, so while I ponder my next Pcar purchase I'm risk free.

The other thing? I drove to South Carolina last weekend, humping down I95 at an average speed of 78mph...and got over 32mpg

I'd focus on the Porsche and get a nice DD that is quick but reasonable.