Poverty, charity and ones life.

[HardDrive]

I would appreciate some input on something.

I just returned from 3 weeks in India.

Upon my return, I was struck by the homeless here on the streets of Seattle. People begging on the freeway off ramps, waiting outside a shelter, etc....

These people appeared to be able bodied. In fact, outside one shelter in downtown Seattle, they were actually playing a softball game with shelter employees. I notice they all had on decent, in come cases new, shoes.

This bothers me quite a bit. It bothers me because my wife and I have been discussing forming a charity to help these same people. It bothers me because millions of people in India, and hundreds of millions across the world live in the most unspeakable poverty. People who are not able bodied, poor children, the mentally ill.....in developing countrys, these people are literally left to scrounge food from the gutters. Their lives are brutal and short. Anyone who has spent time in the developing world knows what I am talking about.

Are there mentally ill/physically handicaped folks living on the street here in the US? Of course. Many. But how many more are simply drunks or druggies?

The whole thing has sent me for a bit of loop.

I was raised with the notion that one should try and help others. And I believe that. But as I have gotten older, and more conservative, I cannot help but notice that those 'in need' do little to help themselves. If you live your life responsibly, you better be good at reassuring yourself, because our society seems to have little value for personal responsibility. Homeless? Someone elses problem. Deep in Credit Card debt? You are a victim of the credit card companys. Got a mortgage you can't pay? Its the fault of those nasty predatory lenders....

Let me try and form a question(s) out this.

Is it still worthwhile trying to help others if you know that many of those receiving that help have done little to solve their own problems? Is the act of service to others noble, even if the efforts only reach a small number who truly deserve this help?

[Flatbutt1]

HD, there are very few things that have enlightened me in the true meaning of poverty as much as my international travel has. Charity, IMHO, is truest when it is anonymous as much as possible. Anonymous in terms of the giver and the recipient. Noble? yes of course. Foolproof? Not in our society. Private, personal contributions are likely to be more targeted but many foundations,again IMHO are too large to be precise.

Maybe you can detail the terms of qualification for your charity's donations. Nice thought and best of luck.

[David]

I think it's worth helping people in shelters. I'm sure many are being lazy or on drugs, but even so it's still a mental problem that put them there. The few homeless guys I've talked to had serious mental issues and choose to be homeless rather than live in psycho ward.

On the other hand, I don't give money to pan handlers. I've seen a guy working an intersection walk off and get in relatively new suburban!

[Christien]

I've always said there's no such thing as true poverty in this country (or the US). You have to go to places like India, where living on the street is the norm for half the population, to see true poverty.

My belief lies with the old saying about teaching a man to fish. You have to teach someone responsibility, life skills, etc. so they can pull themselves out of poverty. IMO, however, by the time a person is an adult, it's far too late to learn these skills. So do we just keep giving them fishes? I don't know. But I do know that we should be teaching life skills in elementary school - starting from kindergarden through grade 8. I believe it's the only way to make a real difference. Kids involved in the cycle of poverty don't need to learn science, they need to learn how to make a life for themselves.

[Seahawk]

First of all, welcome home and thanks for your thoughtful post.

I spent a week in India way back in 1987. My ship, the USS Crommelin (FFG-37) was the first ship to make port in Bombay in over 17 years. We docked in the inner harbor in the city after going through a series if locks.

The dichotomy between the very poor and the wealthy was shocking.

At night we went to a series of hosted parties, at the Embassy, aboard the Indian aircraft carrier, etc...lots of wealthy folks taking us to dinner as well. During the day we were free to go wherever we pleased.

I know this may sound trivial, but that week had a profound impact on my life. There are too many sad episodes on the real poverty and caste system absurdities to recount, but one I saw everyday is worth telling.

In front of our ship grain ships would come in and get unloaded manually, sack by sack. Under the gangplanks whole families would survive by sifting the dirt beneath the gangplank in search of the grain that fell from the grain sacks as they were carried off the ship. I walked by them everyday.

I began to look at my own squawks and squabbles in a whole new light.

[Halm]

Originally Posted by Christien

I've always said there's no such thing as true poverty in this country (or the US). You have to go to places like India, where living on the street is the norm for half the population, to see true poverty.

My belief lies with the old saying about teaching a man to fish. You have to teach someone responsibility, life skills, etc. so they can pull themselves out of poverty. IMO, however, by the time a person is an adult, it's far too late to learn these skills. So do we just keep giving them fishes? I don't know. But I do know that we should be teaching life skills in elementary school - starting from kindergarden through grade 8. I believe it's the only way to make a real difference. Kids involved in the cycle of poverty don't need to learn science, they need to learn how to make a life for themselves.

+1 I think the homeless situation in this country is the "unintended consequence" of otherwise good intentions. Too much handout, not enough helping hand.

[Rondinone]

Originally Posted by 125shifter

I think it's worth helping people in shelters. I'm sure many are being lazy or on drugs, but even so it's still a mental problem that put them there. The few homeless guys I've talked to had serious mental issues and choose to be homeless rather than live in psycho ward.

On the other hand, I don't give money to pan handlers. I've seen a guy working an intersection walk off and get in relatively new suburban!

+1 on both counts. Mental illness can make an able bodied man totally unemployable.

My experience is that most intersection panhandlers are fakes. I never hand out money from the car.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I cannot in good conscience help someone who won't help themselves. I just can't. It's not how I was raised and it's inconsistent with my values.

OTOH, if someone is REALLY trying to help themselves (i.e. they do something with their lives other than trying to bum money off of total strangers), I try to help. I always tip generously (except if service is lousy), I try to be kind and friendly to those people I encounter in the course of their work days, etc.

I'm generally opposed to "handouts", but support self-betterment programs for people that just need a little assistance improving their situation (the ones that are actively trying to do so by availing themselves of charity and assistance programs, etc.) I also can see it in myself to support victims of crimes (abuse, rape, etc.) to some extent. But hand money to the average bum on the street? Hell no. I can't respect someone that won't respect themselves and frankly to go up to a total stranger and ask them for money shows a bottomless lack of self-respect.

One "good" thing about southern CA - if you live here and don't work, you're not working because you don't WANT to. There are way more than enough jobs where everyone can find one. I truly believe that. As such, those who choose the path of the bum elicit little respect from me and I certainly don't fund their choices.

I imagine in a place like India it's a bit more difficult because of the caste system too - some people are simply destined to live in poverty from birth with no chance of ever elevating themselves. Very sad. Of course one can ask the question, "what the hell are people in such conditions/crushing poverty doing having babies". I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to bring someone into the world knowing they'd have no future. Doing so seems the height of selfishness.

[911Rob]

Yeah welcome back!
My brother has just moved to India with his wife for a three year post with the UN; so I'm sure I'll be going over there in the near future too.

I do agree with your post and have some very direct and personal knowledge that has formed my opinion.

When we lived in Calgary, my wife and daughter actually volunteered one night per week for several years at a place called "the Mustard Seed". They worked in the kitchen serving hot meals to homeless people.

About 10 years ago, my wife and I formed our own charity, after much research on how to do this effectively.

In an effort not to drag this post out, we chose to provide support to single mothers that had jobs. It has been very rewarding over the years. We do this anonymously through our own charity.

I'll make another post with our logic and details; hope this helps you out?
Good Luck!

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Is it still worthwhile trying to help others if you know that many of those receiving that help have done little to solve their own problems? Is the act of service to others noble, even if the efforts only reach a small number who truly deserve this help?

Let me tell you about a friend of mine, a guy I used to work for when I was a Lieutenant and he was an O-6. Vietnam helo pilot, still my friend.

This from an Arkansas web site:

Arkansas Advocates released a report calling for an independent assessment of a troubled state child welfare system. “We really move from agenda to agenda as the need arises,” says Kelly.

Arkansas Advocates has a way of seeking out new life in the state, so shortly after Healthy Connections opened in Mena, Arkansas, on the state's western border, the two groups began working together. Bob Young had retired as a Navy pilot and had moved to Mena. (Young jokes that he moved to the little town in the Ouachita Mountains because it was “more than a day's drive from my closest in-laws.”) The county had the seventh highest teen pregnancy rate in the state in the late 1990s and Young went to a meeting called to address the problem. He volunteered to write a grant and that was the end of Bob Young's retirement and the beginning of Healthy Connections, which provides health services to rural Western Arkansas.

Arkansas Advocates soon contacted Young about money available for enrolling children in the state's insurance program. Healthy Connections joined an informal network of health care providers organized by Arkansas Advocates. When Young would see problems in the children's health insurance program he would contact Arkansas Advocates about changing the policy in Little Rock. “They did a wonderful job,” Young says. “The majority of the barriers are gone. They were the glue that held the whole thing together.”

Here is a link to his website: http://www.healthy-connections.org/aboutus.php

The reason I posted this is because there are more ways to help than forming a charity (which is also fantastic)...you can target specific needs in your community and work directly to solve them. I wish you the best.

[911Rob]

Homeless and Shelters

From our direct involvement with the homeless and shelters; we strongly feel that these types of facilities do not work. Much like the welfare system does not work; in fact 90% of the time anyone is "given" something for nothing there will be a negative effect.

A good example is our Native Reservations that were established to provide renumeration to the Native communities; these systems have statistically failed.

We directly and personally observed the effects of the Shelters on the homeless; and going with the old cliche of "if you build it, they will come"; it holds true for Shelters too. They'll come and never leave.

Although the concept of providing hot meals and shelter for the homeless is very good, and the types of people that provide these services through their personal works are "Saint-Like", the system fails to get people back on their feet again.

Charity
Although giving is truly one of the greatest pleasures in life, how we give can be very complex. My wife and I use to give to the Church and then support several charities with annual donations; then about 10 years ago, we re-evaluated our works.

We both strongly feel that giving comes from the heart, and we feel very blessed to have the ability to give. We do our giving anonymously as much as possible. We both feel strongly about the current economic and social trends that have made life so tough on women; as we feel that a women's role as a mother and home maker is truly God's greatest intention, however many women today found themselves in relationships with losers that could not provide for their families, and for one reason or another, the women was left to work and raise her children on her own.

Many of these women probably get support from their children's father, we do not know all the details in most cases; however we do know that mothers are the most unselfish group of people on the planet today. A mother that resists the lure of the easily obtainable welfare or social assistance and goes out to work everyday while raising her family, has definately found a place in our hearts! The world is full of these types of people today. They are winners in a loser society.

When the opportunity presents itself, we work through our Church to provide gifts for the families. We do not just give money; we find out the age of the children and we provide clothing, toys and supplies. We find out who their landlord is and will pay a months rent, thus freeing up a pay cheque for the working mother. Sometimes a gift certificate to a day spa is a nice touch. The process for us is a far better method of giving.

Perhaps others can be inspired here, I do not know? But I hope this helps?

"To whom much is given, Much is required"
...... just try and out give the Lord!

God Bless you!

[widgeon13]

I have learned that giving of time or money not only requires generosity from the pocket but giving of the mind. Unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous organizations that pass themselves off as charities either intentionally or by ignorance and a self serving agenda. Nowadays, philanthropy, regardless of the size of a donation, requires research to ensure the donation is being spent wisely and that the vast majority is getting to the needy and not the administrative management of an organization.

I believe grassroots charities do a better job than the large organization since they don't get bogged down by the administrative staff and associated expenses.

I guess my point is, if you give, make sure the receiving organization has a good plan and track record of getting the money to the needy, not the greedy. It takes some work.

I think that in our great country there are many who decide to be homeless because they can live pretty well off of others, that's not the case in many third world countries, those folks have no other options.

[Jim Sims]

I wouldn't judge until you've "Walked the Streets of Bakersfield". I always become a pedestrian for the morning when I take my BMW 325i to the dealership for it's free service or other warranty work. On foot you see and experience another world and automatically become a suspicious character in the eyes of the mechanized and the police. Many of the homeless (my estimate is over 50%) are mentally ill from either genetic or drug induced origins. There was a movement years back to empty the mental institutions of these people; they were supposed to go into halfway houses and other assisted living facilities. These facilities were never built or staffed because of the reduced government and "all taxes are bad" movements. Now the misery of these people defaces our cities and towns and stains our national character. You get what you pay for. We won't be able to keep them out of our gated communities forever.

On an even more personal level I always try and remember and follow the Native American Navajo culture's disdain of having too many things that are too nice or fancy. They usually mean the owner is not taking very good care of his family.

May you find peace in your souls.

[sammyg2]

This is a very interesting topic.
Through my church, I've been involved in many projects. One was in India where we provided all necessary resources to build a small schoolhouse. teach em to fish etc.

I've helped rebuild a school on an Apache reservation in Arizona and helped build two school/churches in Tijuana.
I even kicked in and helped round up supplies for a rebuild project New Orleans believe it or not. Twice a year we have a food drive where we average 4 tons of food that we give to the local shelters to feed the homeless.
But I won't give a dime to a panhandler.
I've offered them food before but they refused and only wanted cash.
Like Judge Smails said to Spalding, "you'll get nothing from me and like it.

[Dottore]

If the concern is that all (or most) of your charity dollar goes where its needed and not into adminsitration, there are some great websites that track the overhead of all registered charities.

Some of the most popular ones have the highest overhead - and that is always a waste.

As for giving: follow your conscience. There are many people in North America that genuinely need help. I do some volunteer work with homeless people in my town, and I am constantly amazed how many people are on the street because they have (a) really had some spectacular bad luck, or (b) are mentally ill in some way that our society does not fully recognize and treat. These people need and deserve help.

Of course there are just as many scamsters around, but if you spend a few minutes talking to most homeless people the difference between the deserving and undeserving is often very clear.

[artplumber]

Check out Haiti in this hemisphere. Many of the same issues at your doorstep.

Makes you realize that you don't need an ipod or new gadget.

[fintstone]

It just shows the remarkable failure of the big push in social welfare that began under liberal Presidents Roosevelt and Johnson. All it has done is create dependancy.

Isn't it interesting that liberal-led families earn 6% more than conservative ones, conservative-led housholds donate 30% more to charity? Apparently, either liberals don't care or they belive it is ultimately up to government to solve all problems.

[stevepaa]

always trust you to politicize it, thanks.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stevepaa

always trust you to politicize it, thanks.

The best way to solve the problem is to face/fix the cause...not throw other people's money at it to salve your conscience.

[Superman]

I read the first post and did not have the stomach for what I knew would follow. All the brilliant critics.

I have always thought that my charity money should go far away. Because the needy in my community can benefit from my hands.