Opinions/ideas about Alcoholics anonymous

[svandamme]

i hear Timothy Leary had good results with LSD to treat alcoholism
and seriously , last hit 2 years ago was so introspectively heavy

went something like this
hey, weee, oooh,OH *****, who am i? what am i? i'm gonna die!!! huh?
and then i snapped out of it T+12 hours,
sitting with the cat purring next to me, sun was shining, and my appartment looked like WW3 had happened... twice

these days, i maybe drink a good Tripel every 2 months, and nothing in between... not in the mood... wasn't an alcoholic, never drank because i felt i needed, just drank lot's out of boredom, and out of escapism/destressing, and i would just drink till i was drunk... or till the fridge ran out... i could go days or weeks without drinking, but if there was any in the house, i'de just finish it...


kids, don't try this at home!!

[scottmandue]

Funny... "unwell"by matchbox twenty is playing right now.

I wonder how much of our life is spend in border line addictive or cult like behavior.

Like, say you spend all you spare time, money, and energy... thinking, talking, working... on your Porsche

I knew one guy who said "four by fours are my religion" because that is what he put all his time and energy into.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

Like born again christians. Always preaching the gospel of AA. I know it really helps people, but I to have been a victim of someone convince that my 2 beers with my burger is one step away from complete addiction.

Yep... ...but as someone said, the hopelessly addicted often trade one additiction for the next. At least meetings and religion will keep them alive.

My advice? RUN! Sounds like she needs to swing back towards the middle before she's capable of having a positive relationship with a "normie."

[lfot]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Alcohol wasn't my problem. *I'm* my problem.

That's exactly right!

And AA made my ex, and others I've known that have gotten into it, hand off responsibility to a "higher power". The "12-steps" are a system of negating personal accountability. When I went, I was hoping I would find a support system, not the cult-like practices I'd heard about. What I found was people not supporting each other, but all handing off their problems (being themselves) to the idea of the group.

Drinking wasn't even a problem for my ex. SHE was a problem for herself. Then she went and found a group of people more screwed up than her. Almost immediately she was exclusively hanging out with AA people. She eventually married one.

Also, just to clear something up, there has never been statistical data to show that AA actually works.

[scottmandue]

With all due respect... meeting one group hardly qualifies to judge the who organization.

Look at the big difference you see people post about their local PCA... some say they suck, some find them very friendly.

[lfot]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

With all due respect... meeting one group hardly qualifies to judge the who organization.

Look at the big difference you see people post about their local PCA... some say they suck, some find them very friendly.

Fair enough statement.

However, all of AA follows the same 12 steps and the same Big Book. I don't have to go to every Catholic mass in the country to realize I still think it's BS.

[lfot]

Please pay attention to the portion of the Penn & Teller show on 12 steps at around 1:18.

(For those who want the short version...

From internal AA papers 1989:
Percentage of recovery from alcohol addiction after one year WITH AA - 5%
Percentage of recovery from alcohol addiction after one year WITHOUT AA - 5%)

[mikester]

I know someone very close to me who has been in Al-anon for the better part of a decade.

When we met she was very open about it, when we realized we were serious about each other (early on) she included me in her gatherings (outside of meetings). I have always been welcome to attend the meetings but never been forced, never even really encouraged. I am what most would refer to as a 'normie' of course. She drinks as she isn't an Alcoholic, she doesn't look down on those who drink and she does not hand off responsibility to anyone else.

She goes to meetings 2 times a week and is heavily involved with her sponsor and those in her 'group.' I don't always agree with her current sponsor but over the last couple of years we haven't had any major disagreements - we seemed to have found level ground so to speak. He sponsor is nice and I do like her - but we haven't always agreed in the past.

If what you are describing had happened to me - I never would have gotten serious with her. It would have immediately turned me right off.

Instead I have seen it help her through hard times. I have seen it help her have a life outside of our relationship, it is like a man having a hobby more or less. Her social life does center around it but the meetings she goes to are well run and while there are certain zealots in the mix she is far from one of them.

Your mileage may vary but in your shoes I would tell her to take a hike.

[sammyg2]

I work with a couple of AA guys.
They both smoke about two packs of cigs a day and drink a half-gallon of coffee a day, compensation?

Good for them to address an addiction but they may have become brainwashed in the process and tend to "share" their new-found convictions.
I don't drink to excess and will not allow anyone to lecture me.
Besides, AA is for quiters

[rammstein]

Do you have a picture of her?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by rammstein

Do you have a picture of her?

This is the only relevant post.

[berettafan]

i think it is fundamentally unsound to seek out and associate with people who are in worse shape than you.

find and associate with people whom you want to be like.

[wreckersteve]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i think it is fundamentally unsound to see out and associate with people who are in worse shape than you.

find and associate with people whom you want to be like.

A bartender friend once told me to hang out with people smarter than me and hope it rubs off. STUPID will rub off and most of us don't need that.

[96740]

In a nutshell... Just replaces one addiction with another. Although, that may not be that bad.

[johnco]

I was court ordered to aa meetings after my first and only dwi. the people there were the same ones I saw drunk at the bar at night. telling their sob stories and patting each other on the back while guzzling down coffee and chain smoking as they reach out to that "Higher Power" I sat there in the back and was asked to inroduce myself.. I said I wasn't there because i wanted to but because I was forced to. once again in my life I was having religion forced on me. the guy running the thing would come cook his crank in my utility room before he ran it up. had to run him off when I found him passed out with a needle in his leg.. and he's running the place? the advisor that decided how many hours I had to attend was dead drunk at the bars every night. I knew mostof these drunks and junkies from around town. they would all hold hands like best friends, say the little prayers give each other slaps on the back before they all ran off to lightup and refill their coffee. damn they could tell some stories.. each one out doing the next. I made it 2 hours out of 10 before I got someone to sign me off. being with these people and their sob stories was depressing me so much I'd have to get drunk to stay any longer.. funny how they let a drunk decide if you have a drinking problem.. if you say you don't drink much, you're in denial and have a problem. if you admit you drink too much you have a problem.. if it was your first time ever drinking, you have a problem. and this drunk gets to decide your future.. even if he got too drunk to remember you that night, he could determine you were an alcoholic in denial no matter how you answered the 20 questions. and the cop that waits down the road to follow you for miles until you weave a bit from him on your bumper after you leave the bar, racking up the second largest dwi arrests in the state comes sit at the bar on his off time, drinking until he falls off the stool, gets in his car and drives home. I remember the drug court judge from back in the 70's snorting coke at the bar.. the substance abuse director was the biggest coke dealer in town at one time. I was second. one time I was in his house with his wife as he drove up in the driveway to do a few lines.. with a woman I was dating.. hahaha he wife used to bring me porno, cases of booze from his bar and bottles of amyl nitrate.. strange little world we had down here where the narc agents get busted dealing, judges and lawyers get taken in a huge pyramid scheme and it's okay if you get drunk and drive when you're out drinking with the off duty cops. the inmates are running the asylum. at least the junkies and drunks have a little club they can belong to, hold hands, recite some prayers, and feel better after getting stupid drunk that night.

[lfot]

wow dude! uhmmm... your problems are far beyond any topic going on here. seriously, no offense intended. perhaps you need to get out of your current environment.

[johnco]

that was many years ago. I have no problems. just go to work and come home. living a boring little life now. so what is the problem you've decided I have after reading my little rant. I'd like to see if you're as insightful as the guy at the AA thing. he knew absolutly nothing about me either but made his conclusion after reading just about the same amount of words

[RussianBlue]

AA is only one of the cults I have researched. And btw scientology also has a program for addicts (narconon) - anyone want to join that?? - thought so...

http://www.orange-papers.org/

http://www.morerevealed.com/

Run, run fast

[silver912e]

I have a dear friend who has been sober for more than 20 years now thanks to her involvement with AA. It saved her life. I have gone to "speaker's meetings" with her and have heard some very inspiring stories from people who have turned around their lives. I have also seen her fall into some bad behavior and justify it with "rules" that the program teaches. Like anything else that humans are involved in, it is imperfect, but I think it provides the structure and positive human contact that was missing in the lives of most alcoholics.

As far as your friend, I think she is doing something like this (from the Simpsons):

BARNEY: (stands up at girl scout meeting): Hi, my name is Barney, and I'm an alcoholic
LISA: Mr. Gumble, this is a girl scout meeting
BARNEY: Is it, or is it that you girl scouts can't admit that you have a problem?


In AA lingo, it is called "taking somebody else's inventory" and it's a big no no.

[speeder]

I think that there are plenty of things about AA that are less than perfect, but some of the characterisations of it in this thread are WAY off, IMO. It is not a religious organisation, (there is a chapter in their book called "We Agnostics"), and it may be a cult by the loosest definition but it's the cheapest one on the planet. (Free). It also has no charismatic leader, or any leader for that matter. Even though no one is making $$ off it, it's been growing as an organisation for 73 years going from 5 or 10 people in Akron, Ohio to thousands of meetings in hundreds of countries everyday in 2008, with millions of members worldwide.

Many people in AA do treat it like a cult or religion, though I've always chalked that up to the same personal weakness that causes anyone to put their faith in religions or cults. There is a saying around AA; "if it's in the book, it's AA. If it's not, it's someone's opinion and probably BS." What your little GF is doing is not in the book, and frankly she doesn't understand the first thing about AA. The first thing is that it is "a program of attraction rather than promotion". AAs do not proselytes or promote it, ever. It is against the traditions, you might want to suggest that she read them.

Everything about AA is supposed to be about keeping your own side of the street clean, absolutely nothing about it involves preaching to others, doing missionary work on your friends and family, etc...

AA is one of those rare organisations that is a perfect democracy. And as everyone knows, the great thing about a perfect democracy is that anyone can say anything. The ****ed-up thing about a perfect democracy is....you guessed it. Anyone can say anything. Lots of people like your GF and the neighbor at the BBQ "representing AA" to the public against all of it's traditions and doing a horseschit job of it.

"All of the world is a stage, and quite poorly cast..."