Hey now, in the south you can still get away with saying that you have a "'vette" :). Many years ago, I was used to driving my Supra turbo, but when I had my left leg in a cast, I switched cars with my g/f at the time. She had an automatic Chevette, and I swear I almost killed myself a few times attempting to merge into traffic with that turtle (I mean no offense to any turtles).

I think in this day and age, anyone who actually manages to have a positive net worth (in other words, they have more equity in their home than they owe, they have more in the bank than they owe on credit cards, student loans, car payments, etc.) is "rich". They're ahead of 99% of the people out there.

Basically, anyone that is not owned by someone else - a bank, a credit card company, etc. is "rich". Someone who can sustain themselves indefinitely against the onslaught of taxation is "wealthy".

It all comes down to sustainability. Someone who can be self-sufficient, I consider "rich". Someone who actually has a system in place where they take in more each year than they have stolen from them by the tax man - and can sustain it indefinitely, I would argue is either "wealthy" or well on the road to becoming wealthy.

This Chevette that everyone speaks so highly of, is the car that my wife and I left our wedding in. We have been married 3.5 years.
I will try to get some better pics. for all the fans.

Definition - High Net Worth Individual (HNWI)

A classification used by the financial services industry to denote an individual or a family with high net worth. Although there is no precise definition of how rich somebody must be to fit into this category, high net worth is generally quoted in terms of liquid assets over a certain figure. The exact amount differs by financial institution and region. The categorization is relevant because high net worth individuals generally qualify for separately managed investment accounts instead of regular mutual funds.

The most commonly quoted figure for membership in the high net worth "club" is $1 million in liquid financial assets (by definition, this excludes their primary residence). An investor with less than $1 million but more than $100,000 is considered to be "affluent", or perhaps even "sub-HNWI". The upper end of HNWI is around $5 million, at which point the client is then referred to as "very HNWI". More than $50 million in wealth classifies a person as "ultra HNWI".

QUOTE: "So what is rich?"
_____________

If you have to ask ...you probably aren't? :)

Does anyone have a distribution of net worth of Americans. For example.
- <0
- 0
- 0 to 5k
- 5k to 10k
- 10k to 50k
- 50k to 100k
- 100k to 500k
- 500k to 1M
-- 1m to 3m
-- 3m to 10m
-- 10m -50m
-- >50m

Should we do a poll! Just curious (no names of course).;)

I am rich by the standard that started this thread. MY definition of rich is that you have everything and you do not have to pay any taxes, ie your income is all tax free and its in the millions per year.

Unfortunately the democrats define rich as anyone who makes over $1 per year, they want their cut. Waitress, unemployed, no matter, the democrats want you to pay your fair share, ie everything you have. They will then give you back some of your money so you can be grateful to them and vote for them. Just like the so called rebate or whatever its called. Its called vote buying, but they are using your own money to do it! Don't make any money, no problem. They will take some of my money and give it to you to buy your vote.

My tax free income is well into the 6 figures, but not millions yet, so I guess I am not rich,. But all you suckers that "earn" income, youall are rich and you all will be taxed into poverty. Vote Democrats.

"They will take some of my money and give it to you to buy your vote."

I thought you said you didn't pay any taxes???

Snowman,
Please share your formula. What have you invested in, done, and continue doing. Of course if you started rich and just built on it, you do not have to respond..:D

We had one on here recently. But I think it topped out at 1M and would have been more infomative if it had been set up as you suggest above..

If a poll is started, thought should be given to excluding the primary residence from the net worth calculation.

I never said I didn't pay taxes, I said I had tax free income, I also have taxable income.

There is no need for a survey, it is a fact that the rich pay ALL of the taxes and 50% of the population get a free ride.

I consider wealthy as a net worth that's at least your age times your income divided by 10.

This isn't the same definition of wealthy as in some of the descriptions here, but more a general rule of thumb for how well you're doing personally. BTW I'm not there and won't be for another 5 years or so :(

My answer to original question of what is rich: I'd say over $10mil in liquid assets.

So a ten year old with a $2/week allowance and $50 in his/her piggy bank is wealthy? I meet that criteria (not the ten year old), but I KNOW I'm not wealthy :).

edited: ps: On second thought, that ten year old probably is wealthy (relatively speaking), but I'm still not.

My first job was deliering pizzas and the store's delivery vehicle was a diesel Chevette. We called it the "turbo." Usually you got to drive your own car, but sometimes you had to drive it - typically when you screwed up and the boss was pissed.

Diesel Chevette. LOL. Reminds me of the old VW diesels. 0-60 was around 19 seconds!

It is not that fast!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208981204.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208981215.jpg

Now we have the definition of an optimist. Hood pins on that.

Somebody say Chevette? Wonder if they have a diesel class?:D

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I am probably the only one that watched the whole thing.

Boba, the hood latch doesn't work so well anymore.

Rich.... is with what u have and happy u have it.


like me i probely make 3k a year. and know i'm rich.
i own two p cars outright. no help from me parents.

rich doesn't have to be by $ it could be on how well u play the game of "life"

Porschekid, you are wise beyond your years! From my perspective, you are "rich" if you are truly happy, and I've seen plenty of "poor" people that have more money than I can fathom :).

Democrats must be very wise. They think anyone who makes ANY income is rich and want a cut of it for themselves. Democrats must think everyone is very happy, because they say everyone is rich, rich mind you, so rich they need to give till it hurts. Democrats do not include themselves in their definition of rich. Al Gore is not rich, he is just blessed with very large homes. He employs many peons as well. Someone has to dust his giant house. Typical Democrat. Could this be why Democrats like illegal immigrants? They need slave labor to keep afloat, slaves to pay their taxes, to vote for them. Thats right illegals do in fact vote.

There was an article in the paper here that suggested there are about 250,000 millionaires in Canada (liquid/investment capital, not primary residence). Canada has a population of 32 million so that means that about 0.75% of us are millionaires.

So, probably about 1% of Americans are millionaires - which is right around the same number of Americans that are in jail!

Now that's brilliant symmetry. Well done.

All of us 1% PAY ALMOST 100% OF THE TAXES. 50% of the population in the US pay NO income tax. On top of that we pay tax on social security for a SECOND time, just because we are nice guys.

32million. Not a judgement, just an observation. The USA is now around 300 million. It is so much tougher for larger countries to provide opportunity to its people.
For example, I am responsible for the LA/OC area that has a population of 16.7Million. That is just in one metro area.
That is more than 60% of all the European nations, etc, etc...

Always fascinated about statistics like this.

Here are the numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population#List

I am in the top 0.5% of the income for one reason, I worked for it. I worked my way through college, I paid 100% of my own way, no scholarships for being black or indian or whatever. Because I worked hard the no counts, the leaches of society think they own half of my income. BS, just plain BS. I am willing to support charity of my own choosing. I am not willing to give no counts a good living just for being bums, black, indian or whatever. If they work the fields, clean the restrooms and all the other work that Americans supposedly won't do I am willing to consider some support, otherwise I say let the sobs starve! Low income, want a college degree, work for it. No scholarships, just jobs that will pay their way, jobs like I had to do. If someone is not willing to go the extra step required to support themselves, they are not worthy of any support, period. Hunger is a great motivator.

What I am proposing is in no way harsh. It is JUST. It is compassionate, it is realistic, it works. Liberals that just take my money and give it to others, are just plain Crooks, thieves, no counts. If any of them think they earned their money to easily, let them give away, do the right thing. The right thing is NOT taking my money for their cause.

I found this:

Have you ever wondered how your income and net worth compare with your fellow Americans? Below are some statistics compiled by the Census Bureau for the year 2005:

- There are about 240 American billionaires.
- 275,000 American households have a net worth of $10 million or more.
- About four million Americans (1.4%) have a net worth of $1 million or more.
- About five percent of households are considered high income and are defined as households that earn more than $90,000 annually.
- The median household income for all 50 states in 2004 is $44,000.
- Median income by region: The median household income for southern states is the lowest at $37,000; the highest median household income is found in the northeastern states at $47,000.
- Median income by race: African-American households had the lowest median income in 2004 ($30,134) among all racial groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($57,518). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,977. Median income for Hispanic households was $34,241.
- The real median wage for a man in 2004 is $40,798; for a woman, $31,223
- The mean hourly wage of all workers in the US is $11.87; the average wage is $18.00.
- 37 million (10 to 13 percent) people live in poverty in the United States. Poverty is defined as a household income below $19,307 for a family of four; for a family of three, $15,067; for a family of two, $12,334; and for an individual living alone, $9,645.

From the above, I'm barely in the top 1.4% of Americans in net worth (using a conservative estimate of my home's real value), and top 5% of wage earners. Funny, I don't feel like it. Of course the data is from 2004, so I may not be any more.

"the world needs ditch diggers too" - Judge Elihu Smails

Funny but I would not consider myself rich or most of my friends, although most are worth over 1M. Everyone has to work for a living to keep their net worth from shrinking. I agree on using a very conservative value for your home when calculating your net worth.

Wealth in my opinion has to be liquid. Really liquid!!!

Wealth is the option not to work; ever!

Most household in CA that I know make over $150K/year and are far from what wealthy. Comfortable yes, wealthy no...

Luis

I agree completely. $150K/year in LA, the OC is just living comfortably, but not "Rich". I bought my house 10 years ago for $360K, a bank repo with a lot of work needed. It's now worth $750K easily and at one time about a million. I have an 08 Camry Hybrid, an 04 Highlander, and an 84 911 Targa. The only reason that I have the new Camry is that I sold an old sports car last summer for "Stupid" money to an arab sheik. If it were not for the sale of that car, I'd still be driving my 1996 Mazda 626 with 150K on the clock. The IRS doesn't adjust your taxes for the cost of living. I'm sure that if you make $150-$200K/year in many parts of the country you're sitting pretty fat; not so in El Aye. Here you're doing pretty good, but you aren't buying too many extra toys.

We are totally on the same page. The reason I know I am not rich, is that I actually care about the rising price of gas; and slightly consider getting ride of my Twin Turbo A6 (for a Civic or Corolla)...;-)

I think I can stop working for 10 years, but I would surely start starving thereafter....

Forgot to say. NOT trying to insult anyone, it is just that I am not a kid anymore and have saved my pennies for many years. I got ride of my 1988 Acura Integra with 240K miles just 4 years ago, so I a do not have a problem with smaller compact cars.
Its just that I have put on a little weight lately, so I just do not fit comfortably.:D:D

Well from reading through most of this thread, I'd say Rich is alot like the word Success; it's defined by each person personally.

I think I still use the good 'ol Million Dollars as a personal bench mark for rich, fwiw.

As for middle class; I've always said, take away credit and you'll remove the middle class, period.

Cheers

I think I am partly to blame for this thread getting off off topic with a discussion of rich vs. wealthy.. Back to the original query: Rich vs. Middle class.

Since there are so many regional differences, I think a generic description rather than specific dollar amounts would be in order.

Middle class would be someone who has to work to support their lifestyle and living expenses. HH income would be above the median for the region where they live. Their largest "investment" would be their home which would be mortgaged for a reasonable amount (no more than 25% of their take home pay). They would have car(s), motorcycles, boats, etc (i.e., assets that are depreciating generally) worth no more than 1/2of their annual income. At least 20% of their net income is available for discretionary spending.

Rich,,,probably no debt, or if there is debt they have liquid assets that could retire all debt at any time they choose. Net worth not counting home at least 25-50 times the median HH income for their region. Passive income sufficient to sustain their lifestyle for the forseeable future without working.

If the IRS were to adjust taxes due to COL living in LA then they should do the same for Fairfield County, CT.

I'm sure Hillary or Barack would have sympathy for anyone making 150K a year. They might even assign you your own illegal immigrant family to support out in El Aye.

Question for the lucky self-employeed: How many of you are just getting by (ON paper that is...;-)))?

Most of my friends that are self-employeed, write off almost everything, and therefore look like they can barely afford a $500 apartment.....:confused:

Thats the ONLY advantage the self employed have, to live beyond their apparent means.

Word!

You know you are playing it when a Hummer or a Porsche is a write off!!:):p

What?
Luis, really!!!

If you sell homes to multi-millionaires, then you have an image to uphold to mingle with the right crowd. So yes, the Hummer, Porsche AND the Rinker are tax right offs!

I didn't write the tax laws, I just use them to my advantage.

And btw, I personally "could" NEVER pay taxes to the biggest crooks in the world, but I do since I hate being audited. I pay myself just under $60K and my wife $50K annually and pay the tax on it; keeps the wolves away from the door.

this always reminds me of my MIL saying...."Oh and those Rich people that give to charities and then just use it as a write off from their taxes; well what's the point in that?" Some people have NO concept! Live and Learn man, Live and Learn.

TTYL,
Cheers,