No, I'm not. I'm not doing anything of the kind. I want to know how you arrived at man being on the planet for 6,000 years.

Why are you being evasive Trek, I don't understand.

I'm not being eveasive.

I'm telling you what the Bible teaches. What I believe to be true.


What you believe is your choice.



KT

Whew! now we're getting somewhere.

Where in the Bible does it say man was created 6000 years ago?

Are you willing to do some basic Bible study?


KT

Of course.

Some of us have already done the basic bible study. Not withstanding our different views of bible authorship, how does yours give you 6,000 years?

Please look up the cited verses.


KT

Thanks for reading,


KT

Thanks for posting, I don't agree with a bible based calculation but I was interested in how you reached the 6000 year figure.

Thanks for posting, this is fascinating. I created my own excel spreadsheet.

Name......Father's age at birth.......Lived to
Adam............0................................. ...930
Seth............130............................... .....912
Enos............105............................... .....905
Cainan............90.............................. ......910
Mahalaleel.......70............................... .....895
Jared............65............................... .....962
Enoch............162.............................. ......365
Methuselah............65.......................... ..........969
Lamech............187............................. .......777
Noah................182

From the year God made Adam to the year Noah was born, 1056 years passed.

From the year God made Adam to the year Lamech was born, 874 years passed.

This means that Adam was alive when Lamech was born and surely would have known and interacted with everyone in the tree up to the latter on a regular basis.

Just a point of interest,, how long did it take to turn dead dinosaurs into 20-W50 ?

I have no idea, but it was not inside the scope of man's existance.
Would you agree?

My position has always been that the earth is of an unknown age.
Billions, maybe.
No one knows. We can all guess.:D


KT

huh? The Bible tells us it's 6000 years old.

No, it tells us Adam was created 6,033 years ago.

The other things are not specified.


KT

God made man on the 6th day. the Earth is 6,033 years and 6 days old.

...If you believe the creative days we're 24 hours literal 'man days'.
Which they we're not.



KT

:rolleyes:

Where in the Bible does it say they aren't 24 hour days?

I'm being called for dinner. I can't play anymore right now. :D
I'll be back later.

Think on this: Where does it say they are 24 hour days?



KT

They are called days in the text, defined as evening followed by morning. Since Man wrote down God's Word, evening followed by morning is a day is a day is a day as the author knew it then and we know it today. since the Bible only gives one definition for a day, that's what we go by. We don't create new meanings for days that aren't in the Bible. And since you've also dated the age of the Earth on Adam's creation using the only definition of day in the Bible, I'm sorry Trek, a day is 24 hours.

But why would you think so little of God that he couldn't create the Earth and everything on it in 6 days? Why would you even think to create a whole new definition of a day even though the text is absolutely clear on what a day is?

So the 6 days of creation are not literal 24 hr days but the rest, the ones you use to determine the 6k years of man, are...? Please explain how that makes sense to you. Nobody was wearing a watch in those days but the sun rising and setting is ubiquitous for measuring a day. But not in the bible?

Not unless you want to be. What do I win.

Yes they ring true. As does the epic of Gilgamesh, FWIW.

How did the epic of Gilgamesh go anyway ? Wasn't he an archer on a chariot, waiting for a great battle to start? Suddenly the horse bolted, and he found himself racing into the field between the two opposing armies, at which point time stood still...

The chariot driver then turned to face him, and it was Lord Krishna, who then described to him the qualities that a man must have in life, in love and in all things. All the virtues really that a man might aspire to.

And then there he was, back in the thick of it. That's it, that's the meaning of Christmas Charlie Brown. [ And on earth, peace, to men of goodwill. ;) ]

I believe I mentioned this before.
There is also a Seventh 'day'.

The day of God's rest from creation. That day has not yet ended, so it's already been 6033 years long. Not 24 hours.



KT

I believe I also mentioned this as well: The entire creative period of days is also referred to as 'the day'.
So six days of any length would never be one 24 hour day.


KT

of course, there is always more.

There's just a few examples directly from the Bible where a day is not 24 hours.

Would you like me to find more?



KT

Well I guess when the Bible is a living document, you can make it mean whatever you want Trek, I suppose you could find examples all day long. Either Genesis 1 is correct and the rest are wrong, or Genesis is wrong and any of the others are correct.

just proves that you can't trust the Bible more than anything else. if it's so self-contradictory where you have to pick and choose what to believe to justify your current argument, then how do you decide what is real and what isn't?

So why don't you believe in Genesis 1 but believe in the rest?

Now this is cherry picking at it's worst. I read the Psalm. I read Peter.

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context — the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’ — the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years — to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’

This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that the same Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).

The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.

In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there — the Hebrew word for day, yôm, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh.

There are more than one meaning to different words.

Actualy, I won't do that.


KT

You seem to get the sense of God's limitless restraints regarding time, yet you are stuck on the 24 hour day.

If the seventh day is not yet ended, how are you justifying that?



KT

I'm disappointed in how you are spinning the original ancient texts. The great thing about them was when they said something, wrote it down, it only meant one thing. I recommend learning Hebrew and Greek so as not to fall into the trap of placing meanings onto words that aren't there.

Words, original words in the text, have specific meaning Trek. That's all there is to it.

I am not stuck on the 24 hour day. The 24 hour day is a fact defined by the Bible itself. Why are you stuck on denying it? I don't understand that. I don't understand why you are citing references that spin a false viewpoint, when all you need to do is read the original text.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/3922627-post226.html

See post #226 above, about 45 minutes ago.


KT

I recommend reading Genesis in Hebrew and/or Greek. Then you can choose which account of creation you want to believe in, but please pay close attention to the original words used. They have specific meanings. Genesis 1 clearly states that each day of creation is as a day we know it to be. Let us know what Genesis 2 says based on the ancient texts, not a modern manipulation. And please don't cherry pick quotes from the Bible completely out of context to support a claim they have nothing to do with.

I find it incredibly disingenuous that you ascribe whole new English meanings to original Hebrew words.

Thanks.

As to the debatable length of the 'days' of creation:
it would seem logical that if humans created by God, after the fall, lived to be hundreds of years old that the days were actually much shorter than a 24 hr day. By the same logic, the earth must have cycled around the sun at 10x it's present velocity if a year is a consistent measure, thus a present day ripe old age of 85 could be 850 yrs. Physics tells us that the earth could not maintain it's present distance from the sun at that velocity. What has changed since humans were first' placed' on the earth, then?

Keep in mind that the infallible leader of the Catholic Church actually had people imprisoned and tortured for disagreeing with his (ie, the Church's) biblical interpretation of the way the universe worked.

It's not that skeptics such as myself wish to ridicule people of faith. I do find it ironic, though, that if a person of faith cannot convince a skeptic (agnostic, atheist, whatever) to believe in the words of the bible they tend to think of us as close-minded, misguided, perhaps even lost. However, when you ask a person of faith what it would take for them to disavow their beliefs, the answer is NOTHING. Their faith is rock steady. So who is not open to reason?

Mark 10:6 gives a very clear example of the fact that Jesus spoke of a young earth. "At the beginning of creation, God made them male and female" He is clearly teaching that Adam and Eve were made at the beginning of creation, not billions of years after the beginning.

Mark 10:6 "At the beginning of creation God made them male and female." Here Jesus is teaching that man was made at the "beginning" of creation, not millions or billions of years later.

I do not agree.
That verse deals with marriage, if you examine the surrounding context.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. Biblically. Since man's creation.
That was the point.

Many times the bible uses the term 'time indefinate'.
We can clearly trace the years from man's beginning.

If the six days were 24 hours long, which they are not, we could trace that too.
The seventh day still goes on, BTW. It's not a 24 hour day either.

Young Earth is unscriptural.



KT