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-   -   Where did they come from? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/406271-where-did-they-come.html)

trekkor 04-28-2008 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rearden (Post 3913370)
I agree with you. Your position has integrity. But this is what puts believers, who also respect science, into a bind.

If you make a full examination you will find that what is written in the Bible is not in opposition to or discredited by science.

Unproven scientific theories...On the other hand:rolleyes:


KT

trekkor 04-28-2008 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewolf (Post 3913368)
Oh so you Churchies can do you as you please then, as long as you repent.

Nope... No one is saying that.


KT

Rodsrsr 04-28-2008 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewolf (Post 3913368)
Oh so you Churchies can do you as you please then, as long as you repent.

Not at all. Keeping the commandments will not let you attain salvation, rather it is evidence of a person seeking the Lord. In other words keeping the commandments (or attempting to) are a by-product of salvation, not the other way around.

dewolf 04-28-2008 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913390)

Was there something you wanted to add?:confused:


KT
No, I was answering a question and a statement from someone.

dewolf 04-28-2008 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913397)
If you make a full examination you will find that what is written in the Bible is not in opposition to or discredited by science.

KT
Like Jonah!!

snbush67 04-28-2008 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3910989)
While driving to NY this morning, Milt's "Burning in Hell" post made me think, "where'd they come from?"

From monkeys silly...

Shaun @ Tru6 04-28-2008 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913344)
Again, notice the seventh creative day, the one God has rested on, is not over.
Not a 24 hour day.


Shaun, let me ask you. What is your intention on this topic?
What are you hoping to accomplish? ( serious queston )


KT
It has evolved Trek from a musing (early on) to discovering how different, fervently religious folks view the Bible. I think it's very interesting that a day becomes more than a day, and how and why it becomes more than a day.

As I said earlier, I'm a Gospels man. The OT is fascinating in how people cherry pick from it. The greatest of the greats are evil in the OT, yet they are lauded as demi-gods. From Jacob stealing Esau's birthright to David sleeping with Bathsheba and then having her husband killed in battle to Lot offering his virgin daughters to the angry mob, I am both fascinated and disgusted by the Bible and why it is what it is.

dewolf 04-28-2008 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3913432)
It has evolved Trek from a musing (early on) to discovering how different, fervently religious folks view the Bible. I think it's very interesting that a day becomes more than a day, and how and why it becomes more than a day.

As I said earlier, I'm a Gospels man. The OT is fascinating in how people cherry pick from it. The greatest of the greats are evil in the OT, yet they are lauded as demi-gods. From Jacob stealing Esau's birthright to David sleeping with Bathsheba and then having her husband killed in battle to Lot offering his virgin daughters to the angry mob, I am both fascinated and disgusted by the Bible and why it is what it is.
Yes, would you let your child read ' The Ravaged Rectum'? No, me neither. Yet we let our kids read something that is just as debaucherous.

trekkor 04-28-2008 07:18 PM
Quote:
both fascinated and disgusted
The things today that are viewed as entertainment might get the same answer.


KT

trekkor 04-28-2008 07:21 PM
Quote:
both fascinated and disgusted
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1209439274.jpg

:D


KT

Shaun @ Tru6 04-28-2008 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913453)
The things today that are viewed as entertainment might get the same answer.


KT
Was the Bible ever viewed as entertainment? should it be?

stuartj 04-28-2008 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad (Post 3913313)
The answer is that the Bible IS the word of God and God uses the Bible to speak to the reader. It is a tool through which God can talk to us and influence our lives. So your question about "who am I to interpret the word of God", who ELSE would you expect to interpret it for you? God wants a personal relationship with each of us, if he didn't then he would have set down a final end all, be all set of rules and been done with it.

Its been pretty well established that there no evidence to support this. Therefore, this is your belief, based on a position in faith. There is no basis in reality for this claim.

I believe in faeries. They talk to me. My position is as valid as yours.

Shaun @ Tru6 04-28-2008 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad (Post 3913313)
I think you are missing the point. If you look at the Bible as a work that was set down one time to be the end all, be all word for the rest of time then yes, it should address all things completely. That is not the fact of the Bible though. The Bible is a collection of works, some stories, some history, some letters, some gospel. All of these works were written over thousands of years. There are many texts that are not included in the Bible and in fact, the books of the Bible differ depending on if you read the Catholic or the Protestant Bible. What is a man to do!?!!?

The answer is that the Bible IS the word of God and God uses the Bible to speak to the reader. It is a tool through which God can talk to us and influence our lives. So your question about "who am I to interpret the word of God", who ELSE would you expect to interpret it for you? God wants a personal relationship with each of us, if he didn't then he would have set down a final end all, be all set of rules and been done with it.

A Bible that is open to interpretation is open to anything. Anyone with enough time and charisma can warp it into whatever they want with incredible ramifications. History has born out this premise. The Bible has to stand for something. The 10 Commandments aren't open to interpretation, neither should the rest of the book be. Without clarity and conviction of its message, the Bible is just another collection of stories. May as well include The Epic of Gilgamesh.

Same as the Constitution. It does not mean something new because we are in a different time than the Framers. Want to change it to meet the times, fine, create an Amendment and pass it. Want to change what the Bible means? Fine, get some new chapter and verse from God and add it on.

trekkor 04-28-2008 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3913464)
Was the Bible ever viewed as entertainment? should it be?

No and no.

The awful things that people did are outstanding warning examples for us today.

The good and merciful as well.


KT

trekkor 04-28-2008 07:34 PM
Quote:
I'm a Gospels man
So, Shaun, if we go by what's in the gospels, we're good?
You believe them, right?


KT

Shaun @ Tru6 04-28-2008 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913497)
So, Shaun, if we go by what's in the gospels, we're good?
You believe them, right?


KT
One thing I would never do is tell you that if you go by the gospels, you're good.

I try, and too often fail, to live by them.

dentist90 04-28-2008 07:42 PM
Faith does not need proof nor rationalization. Debating articles of faith is an exercise in futility.
The bottom line seems to me that a position is taken and then the facts are considered.
When the facts don't seem to always fit... well, we can 'interpret' them.

trekkor 04-28-2008 07:48 PM
That's not what I meant, Shaun.

Will a discussion based only on the gospels carry more weight with you?


KT

Shaun @ Tru6 04-29-2008 04:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkor (Post 3913516)
That's not what I meant, Shaun.

Will a discussion based only on the gospels carry more weight with you?


KT
In about 1 week, yes. But it's not a discussion that will satisfy you. I don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, I believe it was wholly manufactured by Man. In my book (pun intended), that God did or did not write the Bible is irrelevant. Only the message is important. Because the OT is fraught with evil men deified, and because I believe Saul/Paul is also, I am only left with the Gospels, and the many personalities ascribed to Jesus. But of the entire book, they ring the most true from an intellectual standpoint, and when put into practice, prove their worth from an emotional/conscious standpoint. The Gospels, to me, can be tested and proven experientially.

Of course, I suppose, the story of Jacob and Esau could find merit in a book on Marketing, or perhaps Corporate Takeovers and provide value to the reader in some other way.

berettafan 04-29-2008 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9dreizig (Post 3911337)
I don't know about you guys, but this thread pretty much cleared up everything for me.. You'll be seeing me in church next Sunday.. Oh Sh@t,, I forgot I've got an oil leak on the P car.. well maybe next week then...

You don't see the correlation here........;)


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