All Evolutionists, go see the movie "Expelled"

[Rodsrsr]

Go see this movie. It exposes the holes in Darwins theory. Ben Stein even gets renowned atheist Richard Dawkins (author of the God Delusion) to confess a belief in intelligent design. It is not so much a creation vs evolution movie, rather, it exposes how, many teachers and professors are being silenced and fired for questioning atheistic Darwinism and new scientific evidence of design in nature. This is a must see, for all those debating in the other threads regarding this topic. It is now playing in theaters. disclosure; your views of evolution, no matter how strong will be changed after viewing this film.

[kstar]

This should be fun.



Best,

Kurt

[kstar]

[legion]

The liberal educational establishment silencing ideas they do not agree with...while at the same time preachy "open mindedness" and "academic freedom"?

Surely this cannot be.

***coughglobalwarmingcough***

[kstar]

Originally Posted by legion

The liberal educational establishment silencing ideas they do not agree with...while at the same time preachy "open mindedness" and "academic freedom"?

Surely this cannot be.

***coughglobalwarmingcough***

So, you think ID is "science"? Or do I assume too much?

It won't make a difference one way or the other to most folks, but the movie is thoroughly debunked here: http://www.expelledexposed.com/

I think this movie will further marginalize folks who believe in creationism and reject evolution.

Best,

Kurt

[competentone]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

... many teachers and professors are being silenced and fired for questioning atheistic Darwinism...

Darwin was not an atheist.

Evolution has nothing to do with any argument over "the existence of a god or gods."

Evolution does contradict the beliefs of those who interpret the Bible literally, but those who treat the Bible as some sort of "historical" or "factual" text really don't know much about history or the Bible. Such people are really exceedingly stupid and should receive nothing but intolerance if they attempt to pass their stupidity off as some sort of "knowledge" within an academic setting.

[Moses]

A lifetime of learning will be debunked by Ben Stein in an hour and a half? Not likely. The science is so solid so thorough and so complete that it saddens me to see reasonable people attack knowledge because of a desperate need to defend a poorly conceived spiritual position.

People of faith would be better off if they would try to incorporate scientific understanding into their spiritual lives. Our beautiful world is not flat. The earth is not the center of the universe. The earth is much older than 6,000 years. Like evolution, these facts should not threaten your faith. The science is not in error, merely the narrowest views of god that cannot coexist with scientific discovery.

[kstar]

If you totally ignore the premise of the movie, it's claims have been effectively refuted.

They even copied some animation from Harvard without any attribution. Here's what they copied: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/147

And here is more on the charges:
http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2008/US/301_expelled_producers_accused_of__4_9_2008.asp

Best,

Kurt

[kstar]

FWIW, a rather remarkable collection of Darwin's works, including private papers and letters, is now online: http://www.darwin-online.org.uk/

I just started "Descent of Man" last night. Reading Darwin after seeing Expelled offers an enlightening perspective on human reasoning, to say the very least.

Best,

Kurt

[BGCarrera32]

Originally Posted by Moses

The science is so solid so thorough and so complete that it saddens me to see reasonable people attack knowledge because of a desperate need to defend a poorly conceived spiritual position.

So if its so "thorough and so complete" Moses, how do particles get mass exactly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

Originally Posted by Moses

People of faith would be better off if they would try to incorporate scientific understanding into their spiritual lives.

Another nice generalization there you've come up with. Yet again an erroneous assumption on your part that anyone with a belief in Creationisim is totally ignorant of the world around them. Sounds pretty silly to me.

[Rodsrsr]

Science and I.D. are completely compatible with one another. This is illustrated very effectively in Expelled. It must be, for Dawkins to admit that Intelligent Design "must" have been the "initial" driving force in the very beginnings of life.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by BGCarrera32

So if its so "thorough and so complete" Moses, how do particles get mass exactly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson



Another nice generalization there you've come up with. Yet again an erroneous assumption on your part that anyone with a belief in Creationisim is totally ignorant of the world around them. Sounds pretty silly to me.

I think he was referring to evolution.
It was a good generalization. Which happens to be true. Sure there are anomolies, as yourself, but generally accurate.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by legion

The liberal educational establishment silencing ideas they do not agree with...while at the same time preachy "open mindedness" and "academic freedom"?

Surely this cannot be.

***coughglobalwarmingcough***

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

[Rodsrsr]

Take a look at the complexities of one of the simplest forms of life. Turns out that what we once thought was one of the simplest forms of life is the most efficient motors (yes motors) in the universe. http://www.nanonet.go.jp/english/mailmag/2004/011a.html Truely a wonderful design.

[HardDrive]

Troll.

[sjf911]

Wow, let the ignorant ranting begin.
Where to begin? I would suggest that anyone who really believes the premise of Expelled spend a couple of days and read the Dover transcripts. It is an excellent treatise on the state of modern evolutionary theory and the poverty of IDiology. So much so that it convinced a GW appointed christian conservative Republican judge to go beyond his charge and find ID to be nothing more than religion in sheep's clothing.
You guys are truly pathetic. You can't see your own hypocrisy even looking in the mirror. You wear your ignorance proudly on display as if it were a badge of honor. You continue to spout the stupefyingly same ignorant claims that have been debunked over and over by many credible scientists. Your arguments are nothing but arguments from ignorance and incredulity. Get an education.
Evolution is a fact. Evolutionary Theory is a more robust scientific model than even General Relativity. ID is biblical creationism with makeup on, it is not science and never will be. As such, it will never be allowed in the public science class.
By the way, the only individual ever "expelled" was PZ Meyers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c39jYgsvUOY

[HardDrive]

[HardDrive]

I'm sure some will say, "Well look, the darwinists just resort to name calling".

Yeah. As right we should. Anyone spouting this baloney at this point is either:

A) Dumber than a box of *****

B) Overly religious

C) Combination of A and B

Dawkins is correct. I'm done being polite to you f-tards. Your not worthy of politeness anymore than those than claim the holocaust never happpend.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

Take a look at the complexities of one of the simplest forms of life. Turns out that what we once thought was one of the simplest forms of life is the most efficient motors (yes motors) in the universe. http://www.nanonet.go.jp/english/mailmag/2004/011a.html Truely a wonderful design.

From Rod's linked page:

Nature created a rotary motor with a diameter of 30 nm. Motility of bacteria, such as Salmonella and E. coli with a body size of 1 ~ 2 microns, is driven by rapid rotation of a helical propeller by such a tiny little motor at its base. This organelle is called the flagellum, made of a rotary motor and a thin helical filament that grows up to about 15 microns. It rotates at around 20,000 rpm, at energy consumption of only around 10-16 W and with energy conversion efficiency close to 100%. Prof. Namba’s research group is going to reveal the mechanism of this highly efficient flagellar motor that is far beyond the capabilities of artificial motors.

---------------

The flagellum animation in "Expelled" was apparently ripped off from Harvard, as I stated previously.

This is a writing from the creator of the animation, David Bolinsky.

"Expelled' ripped off Harvard's 'Inner Life of the Cell' animation

by David Bolinsky

David Bolinsky copied me in on this eMail, and I asked his permission to reproduce it on our website. David is the medical illustrator chiefly responsible for The Inner Life of the Cell, the magnificent animation of the internal workings of a cell that was ripped off, first by William Dembski, and then by the makers of 'Expelled', as the following eMail explains.

Richard Dawkins

To the anti-ID community which is giving XVIVO support in our ideological battle against the microcephalic apostates of "Intelligent Design":

XVIVO created The Inner Life of the Cell for Harvard, through fourteen months of painstaking examination of how a myriad of systems, functional structures and proteins in a cell, could be depicted in a sweeping panoramic style of animation, reminiscent of cinema, that fundamentally raised the bar on the visualization of molecular and cellular biology for undergraduate students. In depicting what we did, other than merely maintaining the intent of the syllabus, we needed to edit like mad. A cell has billions of molecules, millions of active functional proteins and tens of thousands of structural elements separating, sequestering and joining compartments and systems into a functional whole. An initial foundational decision process of our creative vision, consisted of editing out 95% of the contents of our cell in order to gain, for our virtual camera, a vista to visualize what elements we left in. The decisions we made blended aesthetics with science. They were not made lightly, nor were they made without extensive consultation with researchers at Harvard, and an extensive body of literature, including protein data libraries and new findings by Harvard researchers.

Given the vast number of structures to be removed, and given the structures remaining "on camera", whose positioning and relationships, both aesthetic and functional, needed to remain true to the function and beauty of molecular biology, it is inconceivable, mathematically, that the animator hired by EXPELLED's producers, independently and randomly came up with the same identical actin filament mesh XVIVO depicted in one scene, which had never before been rendered anywhere in 3D! It is astonishing that among well over a dozen functional kinesins from which an animator might choose, we both chose the same configuration of kinesin, pulling the same protein-studded vesicle, on the same microtubule! Can YOU believe we coincidentally picked the same camera angles and left in the same specific structures in the background, positioned with the same composition? Equally astonishing is the "Intellgent Design" treatment of these and other proteins surfaces, which XVIVO derived using procedural iso-surface skinning of the PDB cloud data of our proteins' atom placement. There are an infinite number of possble "correct" solutions to that problem.

Coincidence? Given their "access to the same literature" we had, where Graham Johnson at Scripps so brilliantly worked out the real motion of kinesins, I am simply blown away that the "Intelligent Design" animators slavishly made the hands of their kenesins move exactly as we did, even though we intentionally left out the stochastic Brownian motion which actually characterizes the tractive force and periodic pedicle placement of these tiny motivators. We simply did not have the time or budget to render these, and a dozen other details, to the level of insanity we would like to have done! This was, after all, an underfunded proof-of-concept piece. The cellular biology that serves as "filler" material, between scenes copied from Inner Life, is riddled with biological errors. Imagine "Intelligent Design's" depiction of protein synthesis without ribosomes!

To Mr. Dembski: The only reason I am involved in this discussion is because I do not want the reputation of my company, hard-earned as it is, to be sullied by even oblique affiliation to your sort of smarmy ethics, if only through works of ours, purloined to fit your agenda. Last year you were charging colleges thousands of dollars to give lectures showing a copy of The Inner Life of the Cell, you claimed you "found somewhere", with Harvard's and XVIVO's credits stripped out and the copyright notice removed (which is in itself a felony) and a creationist voice-over pasted on over our music (yes, I have a recording of your lecture). Harvard slapped you down for that, and yes there is a paper trail. One can only assume that had we not taken notice then, we would be debating The Inner Life of the Cell being used in EXPELLED, instead of a copy. You have enough of a colorful history that Harvard, in its wisdom, decided to 'swat the gnat' with as little fuss as possible. Imagine our surprise earlier this month, to see our work copied in a movie trailer for EXPELLED! And you are in the movie too! Not quite a star, but brown dwarfs are cool. XVIVO has no intention of engaging alone, in asymmetrical fighting against an ideological entity with orders of magnitude more resources than we have. That might make great theater, but would resemble a hugely expensive game of whack-a-ID. Boring!

It makes me happy, though, that you decided to implicate your friends in print, on your blog (http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/#comment-229619), in what is legally, malignant infringement, since you no had doubt discussed with EXPELLED's producers, Harvard's previous legal infringement action against you, the Discovery Institute, where you are a fellow and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, where you teach. Once we uncover the EXPELLED animation dollar trail, and bring it to light, we will have even more fun. The sublimely ridiculous claim that EXPELLED uses completely original animation, in light of copying our work so closely that a budget was reserved to pay for an infringement suit by Harvard, is delicious! Why should I try to take you guys down when you are doing such a splendid job yourselves? For free! So go ahead and release your movie. Just keep track of how many tickets you sell. We may just find that data valuable, too.

David Bolinsky

For more on David Bolinksy and the animation see:

(http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/147)

Above from: http://richarddawkins.net/article,2460,Expelled-ripped-off-Harvards-Inner-Life-of-the-Cell-animation,David-Bolinsky

Best,

Kurt

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Moses

A lifetime of learning will be debunked by Ben Stein in an hour and a half? Not likely. The science is so solid so thorough and so complete that it saddens me to see reasonable people attack knowledge because of a desperate need to defend a poorly conceived spiritual position.

People of faith would be better off if they would try to incorporate scientific understanding into their spiritual lives. Our beautiful world is not flat. The earth is not the center of the universe. The earth is much older than 6,000 years. Like evolution, these facts should not threaten your faith. The science is not in error, merely the narrowest views of god that cannot coexist with scientific discovery.

From my understanding of it (which is admittedly quite limited), the science at the core of evolution is SHAKY AS HELL.

For instance, name me one time in human history that an actual evolutionary cycle has been documented as it happened.

Just one will do.

BTW, Scientists have just recently found out that they were completely wrong about what all life evolved from. They thought it was the simple sponge. Now, they think it was some jellyfish type creature.

I suspect they have no clue whatsoever, and are only guesstimating based on their extremely limited knowledge.

BTW, the absolute vitriol that some of you display merely SERVES to support the premise of Stien's movie...that scientific types that don't like to be disagreed with simply resorted to name calling and insults to silence their opposition.

Science has done the same MANY times in the past wrt many, many theories, only to end up looking EXTREMELY stupid for doing so at a later date becuase- yep- it turned out they were waaaaay off base about some given theory or another.

IMO, scientist circles are among the most vindictive and petty types of groups around.

So please, someone show me a species that has been OBSERVED to evolve in some semi-controlled environment.