Purely spontaneous.

Jeff:

We have been in a virtual pissing match for years & I don't think the hardwood floors could handle a real one.

Ian

I AM NOT A ROOM MONKEY>>>Well at least not anymore. Mother had to buy me a house, she said, "TABS get the fk out there and buy a house, Daddy and I will pay for it. We just want to get away from you for some peace and quiet." After I bought the house MOther and Daddy moved away without telling me where they went. It was quiet some time before I had found out where they went.

I was the opposite of a "room monkey". Before my senior year in high school, my parents moved to a town 200 miles away. They thought I would move with them and finish school in a new town. They moved, I stayed. I had a GREAT senior year.

I can't believe I missed this thread.

When my band dissolved a year after I graduated college, I moved back home to find a job in NJ. My dad gave me two weeks before I had to start paying rent. Before those two weeks were up I had moved to Wash. DC and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'd have moved sooner, but my car was in the shop.

By contrast, my sister was always clinging to my folks after college, asking for money, living there rent free (double standard), and today at the tender age of 34, she's still not straightened out. Now she just calls our grandmother when she needs money. She aspires, yes aspires, to live in section 8 housing, but is afraid she might make too much money to qualify.

Ian, I'd have kicked them out a month after the wedding with no financial support whatsoever. Every deadbeat in the world has a great story as to why they can't get a job or live where they "need" to live or just have to stay a little bit longer. It will never end and if I were you, I'd have a back-up plan for when their Nov. 1 move date changes. My experience has been that folks who need their parents for money or room and board after college never ever break out on their own. There may be exceptions out there, but I haven't known any.

If I had done that, he would probably be incommunicado with his mother & I would have probably lost a wife or at best, she would have been seriously wounded. She has a hyper-protective mother instinct - call it Single Mother Syndrome. A knee jerk reaction would have been fatal to all & beneficial to none. Patience & finesse looks like it will win the day. I'll report after the move.

Ian

I won't hold my breath.

I honestly believe I am more thankful for my parents being tough with me than my sister is thankful for them being so soft with her. My sister's and my personal level of happiness and satisfaction in our lives are inversely proportional to how easy our parents were on us.

If I were still married to #2, I expect we would have a couple of room monkeys and offspring...

My sister has been living with my parents as an adult for almost 30 years. She is now incapable of living an unassisted life.

Do not let this happen to you. :eek:

+1. If you are not the parent, and involved with a mother and her kids, as a male you are virtually in a "no win" situation UNLESS the mother "allows" the relationship to have equal status to her offspring (and that's rare imo). If you've never been in that situation you really have no perspective regarding how some mother's will side with her kids NO MATTER what is going down. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" most of the time imo. Ian, I applaud you for your perspective (and restraint), and giving this some time to resolve itself. The fact that your wife followed suit (or rather "unsuit" :)) at the dinner table speaks volumes about your status with her. For most of us, that's lousy position to be in (with a woman you love), but that's just the way it is with a mother and her kids. Good luck brother...I think it's gonna work out for ya!!!

Been there, done that, got the divorce...

Thanks, Keith.

In any relationship, and particularly in a blended household, you have to be very careful picking your battles. The Alpha Male approach - which appears to be the modus operandi of many posters here (Porsche forum: who'd have thunk?) - can be caustic.

Room Monkey # 1 has a strong personality. A near-classic Alpha Male & therefore he has always required handling in an atypical way. Direct confrontation has never been effective. A flanking maneuver has historically been far more successful. You have to know your enemy - or in this case family - and plan accordingly. Often letting him think he has won the battle, let's you win the war. ;)

Ian

My brother is 35 and has been living at home with mommy & daddy for about the last 10 years. I don't even talk to him anymore; I honestly don't know how he can look at himself in the mirror. And frankly I don't know why my parents put up with it. However they're all on the east coast living their own lives and dealing with their own issues in their own ways. I'm out here on the west coast and have my own life and issues to deal with. I pretty much don't have time (or interest) in dealing with such family drama drivel (F.D.D.) and just call the parents every week or two to see how they are without any discussion with The Leech. I've pretty much forgotten he even exists, which is probably just as well.

How people can not value their own self-sufficiency and/or independence is completely beyond me. I consider it taking advantage of other people, which I have a huge problem with.

I'm only 37 and have no kids. But I am married to a Mainland Chinese woman and I also have some relatives just like Jeff describes his brother (and around the same age as him too). Ian, I see a lot of pain in your future. I give 50/50 odds on your boy's move-out date remaining Nov. 1. And even after that they WILL be back. Just my humble opinion, but not only have you and your wife enabled this kind of lack of independence on his part, but now he's married to someone from a culture where no one under the age of 30 has any siblings and thus has been doted on constantly by her parents. This is a baaaaaaddd mixture. I got a taste of it when my wife's mom came to visit for what was supposed to be six weeks and turned into six mos. My folks wouldn't even think of doing that, no matter where I lived and no matter our situation. And I have a super relationship with my folks. Geeze, my folks wouldn't stay more than a few days even if I lived in China.

If I were Ian, I'd seriously sell the house and move to an "undisclosed location" once they're gone. No kiddin'.

I dealt with this in my family, except it was a sibling of my wife's. We offered to let her live with us for her remaining year of college, in return for her babysitting, cleaning up after herself, etc. She proceeded to do nothing she agreed to, and her year of school started stretching longer. Coming home from work or school to see her lazy ass sleeping on our couch bugged me like nothing else. We had several tough conversations with her, which resulted in her briefly changing her ways, then going back to business as usual. The only reason I allowed her to stay with us for over a year was my wife. But when we moved out of our rental duplex into a purchased house, we told her "you aren't coming with us". Great decision. Sadly, her callous indifferent spoiled brat attitude has forever tainted the relationship with my wife.

Oddly enough, this is sibling #3 out of 9 (yes my wife is the oldest of 10). She was not any more spoiled, or treated any differently than the others. Shes the only one (thus far) that has shown this behavior. Her parents have had to take the same approach with her, cutting off any financial assistance and no longer paying tuition. After that point she finished school quickly, and now has a place of her own and a decent job. Still a spoiled brat though......:D

How does this apply to Ian? Wash your hands of it buddy. You are, as Dr. Phil would say, an enabler. As long as you provide ANY support, they will keep coming back for more. Make it known that Nov 1 is THE LAST DAY they are welcome in the house. When they leave, change the locks and remodel their room into something else. Don't leave any opening for them to come back. Otherwise, the first excuse they get, they'll be back.

Couldn't agree more. Though I might make it Oct. 1st and let them find some other place to stay for a month, just so the message sinks in. In fact, I think 50/50 odds on that Nov. 1 move-out date is too generous. Anyone want to start a betting pool on this?

Considering I got multiple dates from my sister-in-law to move out before I finally gave her the boot, I think 50/50 is waaaaaaaaaaay too kind. I'm saying 25% chance they actually move out.

No, knowing the individuals as well as I do, I believe this one. A deposit cheque has changed hands. And cash is king with him, he spends it only very reluctantly. I think RM # 2's argument with my wife might have played a role behind the scenes. And RM # 2 only has 1 1/2 years left to put in her Canada time for Landed Immigrant Status. Then something tells me that she will want to go back to China for a while.

I do agree with you Rick about the Asian princess. Both my wife & I feel that the poor kid has no idea what he has married or how to handle it. We don't have a lot of faith in their long-term prospects but as parents, all we can do is support them. (emotionally not financially)

Ian

Bingo. And where will they live when they return to Canada? Yeah, that'll be a temporary stay with you, right?

Man, I've been through this one too, as I was engaged previously to a princess from the Mainland whose old man became super wealthy before she could remember having been poor. The girl never knew what the word "no" meant. Not being able to afford something was beyond her comprehension.

Her: I am very frugal. I only spend $2700 per month.

Me: Yeah, but you credit carded $4000 for a Breitling and a Cartier yesterday.

Oh, that doesn't count.

And she wanted me to move to China with her after we were to marry, you know, just for a year or two. I never could explain to her that we'd be returning to the U.S. with nothing, no money, no house, no assets. We'd have sold all that to move to China, earned a tiny fraction there of what we had earned here, used our money to make up for it and had nothing at the end. Bu dong, bu dong.

Ian, I saw your mention of the Room Monkey Wedding in the Chee-Nize Fud thread, tried the search function for the very first time, and it worked.

How are things looking for the November Bust Out?