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Cdnone1 06-03-2008 02:14 PM

It was clearly Goalie interference. On the second one he turned into the Goalie and raised his stick to chest height with both hands before pushing Fluery back.
On a side not I'll bet Fluery's got a few ice packs on him today. He must feel a lot like a pin cushion.
PBH have yo painted the car yet?
Steve

Sonic dB 06-03-2008 02:16 PM

Ive been watching hockey since the late 70s when the Wings were really really bad under the Norris ownership...I played a little but my older brothers played a lot. In all of this time, in the thousands of games ive been in, or seen live or on TV....never once, ever has a player been called for "goaltender interfearance" on a rush like that... and it happened 2x in yesterdays game. Even the Never Beat Crosby network announcers were going crazy about how bad those calls were. They even said "someone got in those officials heads"

Regarding Mule crosscheck or whatever, there was stuff going on the entire game from both sides...
as i mentioned above, the Wings had a 2 on 1 in OT...one guy away from the puck got practically tackled with no call. But that happens both ways.

Historically you just dont call penalties in OT of a Stan. Cup game, unless there is blood drawn, or a guy gets hauled down on a break away or something....those calls were ticky-tack to say the least...very questionable.

anyway....

Quote:

In all cases in which an attacking player initiates intentional
or deliberate contact with a goalkeeper,
There was absolutely NO deliberate contact by Zetterberg or Cleary. I looked at the replays last night several times...no deliberate contact....it was just that clear.

as for 69.3, I have to look at the entire rule in order to see what surrounds it rather than just that one paragraph.

Again, I wasnt the only person who didnt like those calls...NBC, ESPN etc. all made comments.

Sonic dB 06-03-2008 02:23 PM

Quote:

I am going to look into the future and pose a question. If the play continues the way it does and the Pens manage to win the series (don't laugh, the odds just increased exponentially) can you still argue that the Wings are a better team in they are beaten 4 times in a 7 game series? I keep looking on how the Pens have won and can only come down to one flaw in the Wings, Osgood.
Osgood is not a flaw and wasnt a flaw last night. The first goal and the winning goal were great shots and basically very very tough for goalies to stop. The second goal was a lucky fluke put in by Detroit's defenseman when he was trying to clear the puck. Osgood made quite a few excellent saves yesterday to keep the game close and allow the Wings to get their rhythm back and get back into the game. In fact, without him they would have never been able to make that 3rd period comeback. And...this was maybe his "worst" game of the playoffs. The numbers dont lie: 93% save percentage and sub 2 goals per game are great no matter how many shots you face.

People need to get off of Osgood, because they just dont understand hockey and goaltending if they think it every loss just falls on him. His performance has been very very very good... and looking at Fluerry, he played great last night but has let in soft-goals this series such as the winning goal in game 4 but no one calls him soft because he is 6-2 and people seem to think he is great...he is good but no better than Osgood and lets look at him at 35 and see if he is even close to the numbers that Osgood has put up for a career.

Like it or not, Osgood's numbers are HOF worthy. He has a higher save % than Patrick Wah and Grant Fuher, and also has more shutouts than both of those guys, better playoff numbers and before it is over he will best Wah and Fuher in just about all categories.

Buckterrier 06-03-2008 03:14 PM

Why are the Pens winning games? They are being badly outplayed every game. They are not getting the lucky bounces, their second line is horrible. And even with the 'bad' calls they aren't scoring on the powerplay, (winning goal on a lagit highstick not withstanding).
GO PENS!!!!!!!!

89911 06-03-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckterrier (Post 3981883)
Why are the Pens winning games? They are being badly outplayed every game. They are not getting the lucky bounces, their second line is horrible. And even with the 'bad' calls they aren't scoring on the powerplay, (winning goal on a lagit highstick not withstanding).
GO PENS!!!!!!!!


Maybe because they realized that they only way they are going to win this thing is to want it more. It was funny to see them handling the cup with its hard case and the white gloves. When I had my pictured taken with it, I think the guy had it in his trunk and was walking around with it like it was a suitcase. GO PENS!

Sonic dB 06-03-2008 05:57 PM

Quote:

They are being badly outplayed every game
I dont agree. I see the Pens as being extremely talent, quick and fast team with an excellent goal tender. They have outplayed the Wings quite a bit for stretches in this series, such as the 1st period last night and the final OT period. However maybe the perception that the Wings have been so dominant comes from periods like the latter half of the 2nd last night, 3rd and OT when they really pour it on and look impressive.

However...there have been quite a lot of even-play situations and the Pens have done a better job at making the most of their opportunities.

Look at 34 seconds left, Wings polishing up Stanley and Osgood's leg gets pulled a foot away from the goalpost after making that save and the Pens guy stuffs it in there... it was a great play, throw it at the net, see what happens.


Babcock questions Wings’ goalie interference calls in OT
By IRA PODELL, AP Hockey Writer

AP - May 28, 9:10 pm EDT 1 of 98 NHL Gallery PITTSBURGH (AP)—Detroit Red Wings coach Mike Babcock faced very little resistance, or obstruction for that matter, in taking some shots at the officials and Penguins counterpart Michel Therrien.

One day after the Red Wings absorbed as tough a loss in the Stanley Cup finals as possible, outside of an elimination game, Babcock took exception to a pair of goalie interference calls assessed to his team during overtime on Monday night.

Neither led to the deciding goal in the 4-3 defeat in triple overtime, but that didn’t mean Babcock wasn’t still burning on Tuesday after his team returned to Pittsburgh in advance of Game 6 on Wednesday.

Henrik Zetterberg was called for interfering with Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury in the first overtime, and Dan Cleary was whistled in the second—a call that clearly didn’t sit well with Babcock.

He passed up a chance to comment when first asked Tuesday, but he opened up when pressed a little more.

“I don’t know what I’m supposed to say here. I don’t have any idea,” Babcock said. “If you were me sitting here, tell me, what would you say?”

After the Penguins dropped the first two games of the series at Detroit by a combined 2-0 score, Therrien constantly complained that the Red Wings were limiting Pittsburgh’s scoring chances through obstruction.

It was a campaign he harped on through Game 4 when Detroit took a 3-1 series lead.

Now that Detroit has had its lead cut to 3-2 after being 34.3 seconds away from winning the Stanley Cup for the fourth time in 11 seasons, Babcock is firing back.

“I think it’s pretty evident they don’t care what I think, either,” he said. “I’ll jump on the soap box. We talk about scoring more goals in the National Hockey League. We want more goals. No they don’t. Don’t tell me that. I’ve never seen anything like that in my whole life.”

Cleary bumped Fleury after a hard rush to the net 3:41 into the second overtime. Babcock doesn’t plan to take his gripes to the league, instead using the media session to air his displeasure.

“I’m going to try what the other guy has been trying all series,” he said in reference to Therrien.

Buckterrier 06-04-2008 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic dB (Post 3982234)
I dont agree. I see the Pens as being extremely talent, quick and fast team with an excellent goal tender. They have outplayed the Wings quite a bit for stretches in this series, such as the 1st period last night and the final OT period. However maybe the perception that the Wings have been so dominant comes from periods like the latter half of the 2nd last night, 3rd and OT when they really pour it on and look impressive.

However...there have been quite a lot of even-play situations and the Pens have done a better job at making the most of their opportunities.

Look at 34 seconds left, Wings polishing up Stanley and Osgood's leg gets pulled a foot away from the goalpost after making that save and the Pens guy stuffs it in there... it was a great play, throw it at the net, see what happens.

Quite true. My comment was made half in jest. The game is better to watch with the rules in place now. NJ won cups with the clutch & grab, clogging the neutral zone. Even The Great One stated he wouldn't have scored all those points with the rules, or lack there of, that were in place. It was also a small part of the reason Super Mario retired. To get more fans the NHL had to change the rules. It was a boring game. You certainly can't say that about this series.
So the game is on NBC, I can watch it.
GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Porsche_monkey 06-04-2008 05:04 AM

The nice thing about hockey is that over seven games the best team almost always wins. Unlike football, where one bad playoff game means your season is over, in hockey, you can play a couple of stinkers and still beat a weaker team. A goalie can win a series, or several series (Patrick Roy), a coach can win (or lose) a series (Roger Nielson, Don Cherry), but in general the best team wins.

(Don't think the Wings haven't thought about using Hasek either, but at this point that would be a huge gamble, a gamble not many coaches would bet their career on.)

In the end it is a team game, coaches, skaters and goalies. So while you can make the argument that Osgood cost them the cup, at that point you are saying 'as a team we were not good enough to beat the Penguins'.

If the Penguins were to win, the primary discussion will not be about Osgood, it would be about Detroits inability to close out the series when they had the chance. Osgood has been good enough, the rest of the team has not. The second conversation would be about who stepped up for the Penguins, about leadership and the sheer will to win. And the third would be about the inability of a Swedish 'C' to win the Cup.

But don't lose too much sleep over it, it is still an unlikely event. But I'd love to see a game seven.

I will concede this: The skaters of the Wings, overall, are far superior to the Pens. The talent is there, can talent overcome desire tonight?

911boost 06-04-2008 10:57 AM

OK, I have been on the road, was in GA, and stayed up until 1 am watching Game 5. While I have no idea what is a penalty anymore and what isn't, Detroits ability to come back from down 2-0 impressed me. They have the talent to win the cup, and I honestly think they will win it tonight.

Why they didn't ice it with 20 seconds left is beyond me. Raflaski has a habit of banking it off the boards at such a sharp angle that it doesn't leave the zone. he did that against Dallas as well.

Bill

trader220 06-04-2008 11:16 AM

Looking forward to tonights game. They expect nasty weather in our area which means we'll probably lose our cable and / or electricity. From what I read the Pens are really banged up.

Porsche_monkey 06-04-2008 11:19 AM

Mule coughed the puck up for no reason. Other than panick. He will be the big goat if Penguins can come back. It's easy to see that there wes no one near him, but in that position it feels like all five (all six) Penguins are about to take the puck off you.

The glass is your friend. Until you go 6" too high and get a penalty. I know why they don't like that move anymore.

One last word on 'what a penalty is': There are a lot of referees, a lot of games, and a lot of missed calls over a season. These are the best referee's, don't assume that a call you saw made in January was right, what matters is the rule book and the way officials are instructed to call the game, not your perception of what a penalty is. Now: shut-up and play.

89911 06-04-2008 07:03 PM

Congratulation Wings. I can honestly say the Wings never had a bad game. The Pens mustered up some heroic efforts to make it a series, but in a 7 game series, the cream will rise to the top. Fleury had a bad game and let in some soft goals tonight. Once that happens, its over. Hopefully the Pens can build on this and this young team can be back next year, and maybe many more.:)

HardDrive 06-04-2008 07:24 PM

Go Wings. Makes this Motor City boy proud.

Sonic dB 06-04-2008 07:30 PM

excellent finish to the game...exciting...

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

PS The game winning goal which came off the asss of Fleury was a prime example of why you should always complete the play on a rush to the net. The puck was loose behind the goalie and Zetterberg continued his play because you never know.

The Pens have a good team and seem to have a good mix of talent and leadership...they may be a huge factor next season in the race for coolest trophy in sports.

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2008455168/tt0443706

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.d...=0&Quality=100

Buckterrier 06-05-2008 02:57 AM

Kudos to the Wings. And the game goes down to litterly the last second. Not one fight, very few cheap shots, (although Dapers smashing Gonchar's head into the boards last night was a bit over the top). Pen fans showed a lot of class also. Series was also great for the NHL. Most of the team can be held together at least thhrough next year.
Win, Win, Win, Win, Win all the way around.

GO PENS!!!!!!!

trader220 06-05-2008 06:01 AM

Fantastic hockey game. The Pens are just not quite ripe enough yet but they have all the makings of a long time contender. Fleury established himself as one of the premier goalies in the league, sort of like what JS Giggy did in his first big playoff run. The Pens will be back.

911boost 06-05-2008 06:55 AM

Great game!

Hopefully Osgood's play will quiet some of his critics. If he doesn't move the puck even a bit right there at the end, Hossa has a much better angle and would have most likely scored.

Good stuff.

Porsche_monkey 06-05-2008 07:00 AM

Osgood won, he's done it twice now, so kudo's to him.

But, don't try to sell him to me as a great goalie. He is effective. But he was only called on to make two difficult saves last night, one diving arm save on Roberts and the knock down (he couldn't catch it) of Malikns slap-shot shot during the five on three. Hosa's chance was after the buzzer went.

And don't start quoting his save percentage unless you also look at 'scoring chances' and weak peripheral shots.

911boost 06-05-2008 07:04 AM

Fine, don't call him great, call him a winner, because that is what he is. Whether you like or not, or think he is good, he won, Fluery didn't.

Its pretty simple. I'd say 3 Stanley cups puts you in pretty good company.

trader220 06-05-2008 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBH (Post 3985225)
Osgood won, he's done it twice now, so kudo's to him.

But, don't try to sell him to me as a great goalie. He is effective. But he was only called on to make two difficult saves last night, one diving arm save on Roberts and the knock down (he couldn't catch it) of Malikns slap-shot shot during the five on three. Hosa's chance was after the buzzer went.

And don't start quoting his save percentage unless you also look at 'scoring chances' and weak peripheral shots.

Early in the first period the Wings had a bad turnover in their zone and Sykora walked in from the sideboards all alone.

I am not saying he's the best goalie but he deserves a lot of credit which he does not get at times.


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