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Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
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Hauser's Law: "You Can't Soak the Rich"
Interesting recent WSJ article.
Basically, Kurt Hauser says that government tax revenue stays fairly constant at 19.5% of GDP irrespective of tax rates, so the only way to grow receipts is to grow the GDP. Further, higher taxes are a disincentive that ultimately shrink GDP, thus lowering receipts. ![]() Article - emphasis added is mine: Quote:
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Registered
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hinsdale, IL
Posts: 3,428
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This is such basic, simple, and widely accepted economic theory that it amazes me that anyone attempts to argue with it.
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Garrett Living and Thriving |
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Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
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Quote:
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Out there somewhere beyond the doors of perception
Posts: 51,063
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NO FKING *****....I recently commented that if the USA goes the way of Great Britain with a egregious tax rate the very wealthy will leave the country and go elsewhere to avoid taxes. As in why did The rolling Stoned leave Britain and set up residence in France and later the USA. Now you know why the Beatles wrote "TAX MAN" "One for you 19 for me. "
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Out there somewhere beyond the doors of perception
Posts: 51,063
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You want to promote savings in this country eliminate taxing savings accounts as regular income and lower capital gains taxes. Otherwise WHY save any money..
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"O"man(are we in trouble)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: On the edge
Posts: 16,452
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In spite of the fact that this is sound economic theory, the general population will not understand or believe the facts. It's like when 401K's first appeared on the scene, many people did not want to use it as an investment tool because they refuesd to believe it was good for them, they thought it was 'smoke up the arse", same reason many would not believe Hauser's Law if it was explained by a politician.
So rather than do what is right we are forced to do what is convenient in order to ensure votes. Very sad situation. |
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Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,006
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The chart would help, but it didn't work for that guy with big ears many years ago.
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canna change law physics
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but anymore "playing with" the btax will only create more gaming. We need to eliminate all deductions. We need to put in a straight tax, preferrably a consumption.
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James The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the engineer adjusts the sails.- William Arthur Ward (1921-1994) Red-beard for President, 2020 |
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Registered
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West of Seattle
Posts: 4,718
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It sounds almost like "trickle down economics," which has, in fact, been widely disputed. Put this way, it's pretty obvious, but people have been arguing about this forever. Further, I don't think that the common man on the street will disagree -- for him, it's common sense. Cut my taxes, leave me more money to spend, and I'll spend more money. It's pretty simple. But we don't need to impress the man on the street with this truth -- it's the man who makes tax law we need to impress. Unless we can convince the idiots in congress to quit suing sovereign states, get off their keisters and fix this problem, we'll never see change.
Dan
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Control Group
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I find it sort of unsettling that the government policies discourage saving and other responsible behavior, and encourage irresponsible behavior such as a single mother on the dole with 3 kids getting a cash incentive to have more kids.
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lacey, WA. USA
Posts: 25,310
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Yes, "trickle-down" economics has been debunked. Dubya's dad called it "Voodoo Economics." And yet, any time I want to find a group of folks that continue to believe in this false conclusion, I can. Here, and in other conservative groups.
And of course, the thing that allows this false conclusion to seem plausible is the argument that tax cuts stimulate spending and/or saving. Sure, this is true. But so is the fact that people in the top tax bracket have the resources and savvy to avoid paying that rate on all but a small fraction of their total income. You can raise the top tax bracket to 100%, and not change revenues. Nobody's going to pay that. Changes in GDP result in revenue changes. Changing the top tax bracket do not. Duh. And finally, here's a test. This is a test for you guys who consistently take the position that, always and everywhere, tax cuts will either raise gubmit revenues, or at least will not cause revenues to fall: Okay. Here we go. If this is true, they why don't we lower the marginal tax rate to 0%? Nevertheless, I will probably never hear the end of this mythology that we can fund projects with tax cuts. It plays REALLY well with the voters. Proposing desperately-needed transportation infrastructure improvements and tax reductions at the same time is very popular with voters. Just ask Tim Eyman. Or that Rossi guy. Just don't admit you believe this to someone who actually understands public finance. Actually, Eyman and Rossi probably do understand public finance. But the mythology is still their best political tactic.
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Grappler
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Maybe there is no one answer. Perhaps there are different solutions for different economic problems. I have not verified this, but I read that this is the first time tax's have not been raised during a time of war. Another point is that you can lower taxes all you want, but if government spending is out of control it will be a wash.
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Information Junky
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
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Quote:
You know, he called it that before Regan got in office... and before Regan showed how lowering taxes increased revenue.
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Monkey with a mouse
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Super:
I don't think anyone believes that lowering taxes to 0% would really get receipts up. ![]() Laffer was basically looking for the optimum point (tax rate) where government could maximize receipts. He stated that both a 100% and 0% tax rate would generate no revenue. I think folks like me argue that the point of maximizing receipts does not exist above where rates are now in the US. Arguing that tax levels do not affect the flow of capital into or out of the USA, or that tax rates do not play a role in the propensity of folks with money to invest and take risks is silly, IMO. I think we all might agree that the current code itself is too complicated and overburdens people and businesses via compliance costs AND is a coveted tool of power for the legislators. Last edited by kstar; 05-23-2008 at 09:48 AM.. |
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