Soldier discusses his kills

[cstreit]

Anyone see this yet?

"In the spring of 2007, a conference was held on the outskirts of Washington, DC. Entitled Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan, it hearkened back to the Winter Soldier testimonies held three decades ago during the Vietnam War. Of the testimonies we filmed, this one, by Iraq War vet Jon Michael Turner, was the most compelling and intense"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/iraq-soldier-discusses-hi_n_103698.html

So I watched this and I'm angry about it. ...but not in a way that the "soldier" wanted. He discusses the things he did in Iraq including shooting unarmed people, terrorizing families, etc. THen says "I am telling you this because people need to hear what's going on over there".

Well wait a minute Mr. Turner. WHat happened to personal accountability. YOU did those things. No one held a gun to your head. You speak as if this were a pervasive problem instigated by the military when, by your own admission, these were things that your team dreamed up or perpetrated. We,, the people, need to hear about them so we can put your butt in prison, not so we can be outraged at "the man".

This guy sickens me, he's the poster child for the "not my fault" generation.

[Rot 911]

You got it exactly right Chris. Sounds like this guy needs to be tried as a criminal.

[Christien]

I got the impression that he had come to the realization that what he did was wrong, and it wouldn't surprise me that if asked he would say he was prepared to suffer the consequences. Not that that in any way excuses his actions, or suggests he should be let off the hook. I can't imagine a soldier admitting to killing an innocent civilian will not be punished, especially one admitting so in such a public manner.

And even if I'm wrong, and he is taking the "not my fault" role, his warning should still be heeded. Any kind of illegal systemic encouragement of aggression should be dealt with immediately and severely. And they should still throw his sorry ass in prison for a long time. Or just let him wander the streets of Baghdad in Iraqi clothing, unarmed, and let him suffer at the hands of his buddies.

[Mule]

So is the point here that he is a criminal or that all our soldiers are criminals?

[Christien]

You do realize that there are many shades of grey between one soldier and all the soldiers, right? Over 150,000 shades.

[Tobra]

Depends on who you ask Mule.


Ask me, or most folks here and it is this douche.

Ask Dottore, Kach or their crew and they will go all John Kerry on you

[kach22i]

The truth can be very sad.

Confession can be good for the soul.

[Tobra]

see what I mean

[Rikao4]

he's full of it,
ask him once, did you kill innocent bystanders..?
if yes,
march his butt in front of a squad Iraq soldiers and snuff his butt.
I pretty sure when faced with the death penalty or long prison time..
he will recant.
If he did it, I would stand in for an Iraq who may be a bad shot.
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Kach, go play with your duck.[/COLOR
Rika

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Depends on who you ask Mule.


Ask me, or most folks here and it is this douche.

Ask Dottore, Kach or their crew and they will go all John Kerry on you

I hate it when they go Kerry on me! But it's not as bad as going Theraaaysah on me!

[BeyGon]

Maybe Oliver Stone can make a movie about this guy, or did he?

[billwagnon]

I heard some of the Winter Soldier testimony on "free speech radio" while on the road Monday.

The stories being told in public were of atrocities committed with full knowledge of the chain of command, things like being offered a four-day pass for being the first to kill by stabbing. Things like murder of obvious non-combatants as a way to ameliorate the horror of losing fellow soldiers.

This is the military - aren't you trained from day 1 NOT to push back against orders? Where is the accountability for the leadership? This goes all the way to the top.

I agree war is hell and I know there a lot of good men who are soldiers over there, but some of our actions are stupid and evil and a lot of what we are doing there is breeding more terrorists, and we will be paying for that, and for the mental problems of our soldiers, for the rest of my life. Our country has a lousy record on supporting the returning troops medically and psychologically.

Some members of our military are trained thugs and they were trained and directed under my flag with my taxes. But my disgust is written off by "oh you aren't an American if you don't support the troops".

It takes a lot of guts first of all to live through something like that, and then to come clean about it. Oh, but we should carry on the murder and kill the guy who speaks the truth about the evil we have done. That is just wonderful. Doesn't thinking like that make you feel even a little bit dirty?

[MichiganMat]

Apparently its all Kach22i's fault.

Sorry George, thems the breaks.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Depends on who you ask Mule.


Ask me, or most folks here and it is this douche.

Ask Dottore, Kach or their crew and they will go all John Kerry on you

If they don't start singing Kum-By-ah first.

Originally Posted by billwagnon

The stories being told in public were of atrocities committed with full knowledge of the chain of command, things like being offered a four-day pass for being the first to kill by stabbing.

As an ex-soldier i would put the odds of that being true at about 1:1,000,000

Originally Posted by billwagnon

This is the military - aren't you trained from day 1 NOT to push back against orders?

Nope, a soldier is fully instructed not to obey an illegal order, and given many examples to mull over. FOLLOWING an illegal order will get you into as much trouble as disobeying a legal one.

Originally Posted by billwagnon

Where is the accountability for the leadership? This goes all the way to the top.

Only in your wildest leftist dreams. Any time a credible illegal killing goes down it winds up in the press and all over the papers, and heads roll.

[jyl]

C'mon, do you think any extended war can be fought by a large force without some unjustified, criminal, even atrocious acts? Would be the first time in human history. Didn't happen in Vietnam, Korea, WW2, etc. Why think it happened in Iraq?

I think a small number of US soldiers have done bad things, I think it is a very small number, and I think it is unavoidable. It shouldn't be swept under the rug, because we need to minimize these things, but it shouldn't be thought of as representative of the US troops or a reason to condemn the military as a whole.

[m21sniper]

There are illegal acts, and soldiers get put away for them, just like civilian life. And the UCMJ is a lot less forgiving than a civvie court in most cases. It's in all the papers when an illegal killing, torture, etc. happens.

The US military is rabidly gung-ho about rules of engagement and moral conduct at the institutional level. There is no culture of murder and mayhem, it's as simple as that. The US military is an extremely image driven entity.

[billwagnon]

Thanks M21 - my heart does feel better, knowing that these faithless soldiers who come back telling tales of depraved murder, throwing away their Purple Heart medals and ripping up their citations of excellence to make their point are just disgruntled, or probably mentally unstable and are spinning wholesale fabrications just to get the attention.

History shows that there are always a few bad apples out to tear down the good works we do at such great cost and we need pay them no heed.

As an American I am proud to learn that the grownups are in charge and our activities there are fully monitored and disclosed by the local journalists for the betterment of all peoples. I will keep that in mind if ever I entertain a moment of doubt about our spotless and wholesome goodness.

The next country we liberate from a wanton tyrant will surely welcome us with open arms. Kum-bay-yah, good sir!

I would love to believe the image consciousness does not extend to wholesale rejection of what those who served are saying.

[m21sniper]

Wow, you did a big time edit of your last post while i was responding...

Anyway,

I was watching a field video the other night of a soldier in Iraq operating as part of a supply truck convoy. He was carrying on at length about how every time they pass this stretch of road, they get pelted by kids with big ass rocks. As they pass through, you can hear radio calls from other trucks in the convoy as they get hit. Many windshields break as the kids pelt their trucks with large rocks.

It's obviously very dangerous, and the soldier says, "but our first sergeant says, we're not allowed to shoot the little bastahds." He rants about how he should be able to shoot them, but how it's against the rules of engagement, which in his view, is all screwed up.

Unarmed civilians who pose no risk are not allowed to be intentionally shot. It's against the rules.

At any rate, the video is extremely telling on many, many levels.

[billwagnon]

I agree it is surely hell to exist in a war zone.

[Rikao4]

Bill, all your little hero had to do is say NO,

Rika