Death of the American Dream (warning: depressing)

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Many of us on here have discussed these sorts of issues before, but it's rather telling that the mainstream media is starting to take notice.

Key points:

- Only 45% of Americans today believe their children will live better than them
- From 2001-2008, average household income has declined
- "the typical American worker has fewer years of education"
- "either taxes will need to be raised across the board or the government will inflate the money supply enough to take care of the debt." [I'm glad I'm not the only one realizing this]

Interesting read, whether or not you completely believe it.

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/10/is-the-american-dream-dead-or-just-wounded/

The problems facing us today are very deep, very bad and there's no "silver bullet" for any of them. Storm clouds on the horizon. I just hope to keep my bow into the waves and trimmed to ride through it.

[daepp]

Too much pessimism today. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. As true today as it was in the thirties. Too much MSM pessimism is the self fulfilling problem!

[KaptKaos]

Hope and Change?

[Racerbvd]

Actually, the reason for the decline is listed.

Only 45% of Americans today believe their children will live better than them
- From 2001-2008, average household income has declined
- "the typical American worker has fewer years of education"

The easy way is not always the best way. One very positive thing that Obama has done is to show the black youth what a college education can do. The lower education is is a very bad trend and has hurt this country accross the board.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yea, I'd say that's a big part of it.

Also the fact that academic rank (as in "grade completed") means less and less as time goes on. A bachelor's degree today is what a high school diploma was in the 1970s or earlier. In order to REALLY get a pretty certain shot at being white collar today, one needs a graduate degree (which translates to many tens of thousands of dollars of additional cost and many more tens of thousands in earnings lost/short-term opportunity cost)

Students are rubber stamped through the system, teacher's unions undermine and destroy the educational focus of primary and secondary education, colleges seem less concerned about quality graduates than ever before, opting to simply "rubber stamp" any student who can simply write the checks, etc.

I agree education needs to change, but where to start?

[Superman]

Byron, I'm not sure I have ever seen a more wise post from you than the above. Or from anybody.

Yes Jeff, there are no simple solutions. But hope is most certainly not gone. America has the stomach and the backbone for non-simple solutions.

David, we have more to fear than fear itself. The media is not drumming this up out of nothing. There are problems. Real problems.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Actually, the reason for the decline is listed.



The easy way is not always the best way. One very positive thing that Obama has done is to show the black youth what a college education can do. The lower education is is a very bad trend and has hurt this country accross the board.

There is a first time for everything!

I will admit this is the very first time I have agreed wholeheartedly with a post from you. But you have nailed this one down. You are exactly correct. Education should consist of learning how to research properly and how to perform critical thinking. All the rest will follow.

[Aurel]

Actually, it is a myth that graduate education costs tens of thousands of dollars IN SCIENCE, students get paid and get free tuition for their masters and phDs. That is because students in science are the engine of research, they are the ones who do the work. Of course, if you want to be a lawyer or an MBA, different story...

Aurel

[Tobra]

One of the biggest problems I have seen is the misconception that a Bachelor's degree is the right course for everyone. The trades(carpentry, metal working) have gotten short shrift for years. Many, many students are sold a bill of goods that reads, "Get a college degree and be guaranteed success".

This is not only mistaken, but destructive. We are left with a huge number of young people with crushing debt, and no marketable skills. A lot of them would have been better off joining the military and learning to be diesel mechanics, or electicians or heavy equipment operators, cooks etc, etc.

[Gogar]

I don't believe the American Dream has died so much as it has mutated;

From: "Prosper enough in the workplace to provide for my family and help them to be happy."

To: "Get as much $hit as possible, right now, whether we need it or not, and whether we can afford it or not."


I think the "Get as much $hit as possible" dream is dying, and not a bit too soon.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by daepp

Too much pessimism today. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. As true today as it was in the thirties. Too much MSM pessimism is the self fulfilling problem!

I couldn't agree more. Folks, quit watching TV during what is called the news hours...you'll find your mood improving. They make their living trying to depress us...

[imcarthur]

Unfortunately, ostriching from the media won’t make any problems go away. Mere confidence will help, but it won’t solve problems. Debt, for example – both personal & gov’t – won’t go away by ignoring what the media says about it.

Ian

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Unfortunately, ostriching from the media won’t make any problems go away. Mere confidence will help, but it won’t solve problems. Debt, for example – both personal & gov’t – won’t go away by ignoring what the media says about it.

Ian

I have no debt...the government doesn't ask me about it's debt. I learned long ago that it's better to have others pay you interest while you pay none. I'm not being an ostrich...I just take care of myself, while wishing others would do the same.

(edit) But I sure as hell can live without watching "Perky Katie" tell me how bad things are, and that only socialism will save us...

[DavidB911]

I made ~20k as a masters student and the phD students make more. the problem is that about 95% of graduate students are foreign students. 1) We are giving money to foreign parties even if they stay here 2) Educating foreign individuals to enhance their own country. For some reason most American students are "happy" with a bachelor degree. I know most don't need the graduate degree, but its almost unwise not to get it if your in engineering or a science major. I think its more that the other countries have learned how to beat us at our own game. I won't mention anything about unions.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Tobra

One of the biggest problems I have seen is the misconception that a Bachelor's degree is the right course for everyone. The trades(carpentry, metal working) have gotten short shrift for years. Many, many students are sold a bill of goods that reads, "Get a college degree and be guaranteed success".

This is not only mistaken, but destructive. We are left with a huge number of young people with crushing debt, and no marketable skills. A lot of them would have been better off joining the military and learning to be diesel mechanics, or electicians or heavy equipment operators, cooks etc, etc.

No ****. I have had a bunch of those people working for me at one time or another.

I live 45 miles from the city and have a hellish commute. I have a nice house and make decent money but....when I drive around the big houses on the 5 acre lots all have a ton of "trade" vehicles out front. Pick ups with ladders and the like. On Sundays (for dinner, footbal or NASCAR watching is suspect), it's like like the yellow pages advertisers all got together at one place.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Tobra

One of the biggest problems I have seen is the misconception that a Bachelor's degree is the right course for everyone. The trades(carpentry, metal working) have gotten short shrift for years. Many, many students are sold a bill of goods that reads, "Get a college degree and be guaranteed success".

This is not only mistaken, but destructive. We are left with a huge number of young people with crushing debt, and no marketable skills. A lot of them would have been better off joining the military and learning to be diesel mechanics, or electicians or heavy equipment operators, cooks etc, etc.

.

Post of the month!

[Rick Lee]

I agree with Tobra. College is not for everyone. We hear so much from politicians about wanting grants and freebies for college. Why? Not everyone belongs in college. The world needs ditch diggers too. I learned far more in prep school than in college. College was a breeze for me. I spent my junior year abroad, went part time my fourth year and still finished in four years. My folks were overjoyed because I picked a college that cost less than my prep school. I have never once been asked about my degree by an employer.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by Tobra

One of the biggest problems I have seen is the misconception that a Bachelor's degree is the right course for everyone. The trades(carpentry, metal working) have gotten short shrift for years. Many, many students are sold a bill of goods that reads, "Get a college degree and be guaranteed success".

This is not only mistaken, but destructive. We are left with a huge number of young people with crushing debt, and no marketable skills. A lot of them would have been better off joining the military and learning to be diesel mechanics, or electicians or heavy equipment operators, cooks etc, etc.

Right ON. I totally agree with you.

Actually, if you study hard and become the BEST at whatever trade, profession you choose you will likely make a very good living. If you get a degree and expect someone to just hand you money, your will never get anywhere. The trades take care of this problem with apprenticeship, if you are not any good you just do not make it. Unfortunately the university's have gotten very lax and pass far to many with no skills whatsoever.

[the]

Originally Posted by Tobra

One of the biggest problems I have seen is the misconception that a Bachelor's degree is the right course for everyone. The trades(carpentry, metal working) have gotten short shrift for years. Many, many students are sold a bill of goods that reads, "Get a college degree and be guaranteed success".

This is not only mistaken, but destructive. We are left with a huge number of young people with crushing debt, and no marketable skills. A lot of them would have been better off joining the military and learning to be diesel mechanics, or electicians or heavy equipment operators, cooks etc, etc.

aka:

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

No ****. I have had a bunch of those people working for me at one time or another.

I live 45 miles from the city and have a hellish commute. I have a nice house and make decent money but....when I drive around the big houses on the 5 acre lots all have a ton of "trade" vehicles out front. Pick ups with ladders and the like. On Sundays (for dinner, footbal or NASCAR watching is suspect), it's like like the yellow pages advertisers all got together at one place.

Wouldn't want any of them "ladder carrying pickem-ups" bringin down the neighborhood now would we...