Managing Bedtime rituals

[mikester]

We have a 3 1/2 year old who simply does not want to go to bed. When he was younger we had a fairly successful bedtime ritual that has evolved a bit but has stayed stable since he started sleeping on his own.

We get ready for bed, we read a few bedtime stories (3 typically) then we have a few bedtime songs and then we are supposed to leave.

We've been having this trouble since he turned 3 or so and it's just causing so much strife it's ridiculous.

What he does is just constantly gets out of bed, or does something to keep himself up for hours after we put him in bed. He won't stay in bed, he doesn't seem to be able to sit still and it is rare that we make it through the usual ritual.

My wife is at her wits end as am I.

Generally speaking he's a good kid who listens pretty well, the only real problem we have right now is bed time and nap time. We gave up on the nap time for a while but it seemed to make things worse. When he wasn't getting his nap he would be come very grouchy at night so we went back to nap time. At preschool he takes naps during the day. We have tried what they do which is to lay down with him (and the other kids) a bit to get him calmed down but he wants us there until he falls asleep and I just don't think that is something we should do. He needs to get to sleep on his own.

Your thoughts/suggestions/experience?

[9dreizig]

Wow I thought this was about something totally different!!! LOL..
But as long as I'm here, have you tried Kahluha and Milk ??( just kidding)

[mikester]

I understand how you could say we aren't being firm enough. I think it is more likely that we are not being consistent enough. We're just short of spanking for not staying in bed.

We already do the baby gate and we have started the super nanny trick you suggested but again, we haven't been consistent enough with it.

It is extremely frustrating, especially at the end of a long day.

[TechnoViking]

We're going through this right now. We're trying to get away from a seriously dysfunctional bedtime routine with our 3 year old where my wife and I both lay in his room until he falls asleep. Enough of that!

The Supernanny method rocks. Now one of us sits on the floor of the child's room and keeps putting him back in bed every time he gets out. It only took a few tries and we're already enjoying much happier evenings for the whole family.

You just gotta be consistent. Don't cave in.

[speedracing944]

SuperNanny or Naughty Chair

[speedracing944]

I was just kidding about the naughty chair. The supernanny technique works well. Don't verbally engage the child. Just set him/her back into bed. No good night, no nothing. Just put them in and walk away. Before my kids go to bed they know they get 1 chance at getting a drink of water or going pee but as soon as they are upstairs they can't come down again. They know the expectations.

Speedy

[speedracing944]

I was just kidding about the naughty chair. The supernanny technique works well. Don't verbally engage the child. Just set him/her back into bed. No good night, no nothing. Just put them in and walk away. Before my kids go to bed they know they get 1 chance at getting a drink of water or going pee but as soon as they are upstairs they can't come down again. They know the expectations.

Speedy

[LeeH]

In addition to the no engagement march back to bed routine, you might consider this:
You can punish undesirable behavior or reward desirable behavior. What motivates him? Toys? Zoo? Video? Movie? Figure out what really motiviates him and offer him that as a reward for some number of successful evenings. He's young so it will have to be a small number. Start with something like, three nights of cooperation equals one reward - for instance, a trip to the video store to pick out the movie of his choice.

Have him design a chart where you'll track his successes with stickers (of his choice, of course). Celebrate each success. Celebrate the completion of the sticker charts. Celebrate the trip to the video store. Hang that chart in a place of honor and design the next chart... five days this time. Each one is a little longer than the previous one. We started using this for general behavior when our daughter was very young and only recently discontinued it, once she was well past 8 yo.

[Danny_Ocean]

If Danny Ocean had kids:

[Dottore]

It would be much easier to take your questions seriously without the Dick Cheny avatar.

IMHO

[mikester]

Originally Posted by LeeH

In addition to the no engagement march back to bed routine, you might consider this:
You can punish undesirable behavior or reward desirable behavior. What motivates him? Toys? Zoo? Video? Movie? Figure out what really motiviates him and offer him that as a reward for some number of successful evenings. He's young so it will have to be a small number. Start with something like, three nights of cooperation equals one reward - for instance, a trip to the video store to pick out the movie of his choice.

Have him design a chart where you'll track his successes with stickers (of his choice, of course). Celebrate each success. Celebrate the completion of the sticker charts. Celebrate the trip to the video store. Hang that chart in a place of honor and design the next chart... five days this time. Each one is a little longer than the previous one. We started using this for general behavior when our daughter was very young and only recently discontinued it, once she was well past 8 yo.

We've tried similar strategies with him in the past and he just isn't 'sticker motivated' as his pre-school teacher puts it. For potty training I gave him a matchbox car every time he used the potty, 1 for pee and 2 for poop. He was potty trained in no time with that method but I'm not game for that one in this case. I don't want that to be the only motivational tool and I don't think it would be wise here. I put him in bed tonight and gave him the silent treatment, he went down with out much fight but stayed awake for a good 2 hours or so in there - frustrating. If he doesn't get his sleep he's a real a$$hat (much like me) but I'll be waking him up bright and early at 7am tomorrow...


Back to the chart - we've actually been doing one for the last couple of weeks and only once have we been able to get a full day of good out of him. Mostly it falls apart at bed time.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Dottore

It would be much easier to take your questions seriously without the Dick Cheny avatar.

IMHO

What? You don't take the second man in line to lead the free world seriously?

Go f&^k yourself!

[livi]

Here is the docs advice: None.

I don´t give a rats azz for any of the standard dog training routines. Every child is unique and so are their parents. Furthermore, children develops and matures during the pre school years and what works for a two year old may not work with a three year old. Comes with my work that I have seen and heard about all kinds of techniques over the years. Some or most seem to be more angled toward the well being of the parents, not the child. Kids this age group need to feel safe and secure. They instinctively wants to be close to their parents.

I have four kids myself and I have tried many routines. With my youngest, now three years old, I chucked all that out the window. I realized that bed time is a very special moment that is well worth spending some time on. Hence, Hannah still sleeps in my bed and when its bedtime I lie down beside her as if we were going to sleep both of us. She sleeps within five minutes.

[berettafan]

The phasing out of naptime was tough for us as well (my little guy turned 4 recently) and the toughest part was the last hour or so before bedtime. You'd think they'd be ready for sleep but the effect is the opposite for whatever reason.

We too had 3 stories, 4 songs, then bedtime. It has evolved to 1 or 2 stories (they have gotten longer in some instances), generally no songs and me laying on the floor next to his bed for about 10 minutes. I don't really mind it because i can use the time to plan my projects out. For instance last night i was working through the parts i need for my beemer project. a few nights before i was trying to solve my fuel supply issue on the 911.

it's good quiet time for me and i actually enjoy it.

several of our friends have similar aged kids that sleep in their beds. we, thankfully, haven't had that issue because it was never much of an option that we allowed. story time is in mommy and daddy's bed but believe it or not he asks to go to his bed almost immediately after the story!

do you have one of those aquarium thingy's in his room? we have used one since our son was born and turn it on every night when he goes to bed. sometimes if he's still awake and the aquarium times off he'll call out 'more fishies please!'. i love it!

[billwagnon]

sticker charts often work well for behavior modification (toothbrushing and so on) if the child is old enough to want stickers (stickers are cool!)

[Vipergrün]

I am sure I'll get flamed for this, but I think the rewards system is not good. Not only will the rewards start getting more and more substantial, but the kid will start bargaining every action for a reward. Before you know if you'll be owned by a 5 year old....

But, as they say, whatever works.

[gr8fl4porsche]

What worked well for us was taking away toys and priviledges the next day.

3.5-4 yr old girl. She would get out of bed every night and either come out into the living room or try to crawl in bed with us in the middle of the night.

When she got out of bed while we were still awake, we would put her back in bed and tell her that if she did it again, we would take away one of the stuffed animals she slept with. We kept our word. She was not happy to lose her 'snugglies' for the night. Every time she got up, she lost another 'toy'.

We also worked on taking stuff away the next day. It is kind of a positive/negative thing depending on how you look at it. We would tell her that if she stayed in bed she could watch TV the following morning or night. Of course, if she got out of bed then TV priviledges would be taken away.

It must have worked because she has not got out of bed in months. I think they also grow out of it.

[KaptKaos]

With ours, we had different routines with all of them. When they were younger, they were all in our bed to start, and then we moved them out. Over time, we started them in their beds, and stayed with them a while. Then we slowly transitioned out of the room. Now, they all go to sleep in their own beds for the most part.

Our youngest still wants to snuggle up next to Mommy at bed time, but the older two read to each other and fall asleep.

Enjoy it. I know that's hard to imagine when your exhausted, but if you try to, it might be easier to deal with.

[billwagnon]

Stickers aren't really a reward or a payoff. It's more of a concrete way that they see their behavior recorded and they are motivated to control the behavior.

Usually it goes for a week or two, then they forget all about the stickers but they have new good habits.

[IROC]

Our daughter did this when she was about 3 years old. It went on for about 2 or 3 nights and I couldn't take it any more.

Here's what we did: Locked her in her room. It sounds cruel, but it's not. We explained to her (when it was bed time) that there was nothing wrong and that she needed to stay in her bed. We told her very calmly that if she gets out of her bed and leaves her room, we were going to lock her door (they make little plastic doorknob thingies just for this).

Anyway, the first night we went through this little ritual and she got up and walked out of her room. We put her back in there and locked the door and she screamed bloody murder for probably 30 minutes (seemed like hours) before she finally climbed in bed and went to sleep. The next night the same ritual - we calmly explained that if she left her room we were going to lock her door (and now she knew we meant it). She left her room and we locked the door and she screamed for about 10 minutes and then went to sleep.

The next night she was fine.

You gotta nip this stuff in the bud. IMHO you - as a parent - have to be fair, calm, but in control.