I wrote the previous post before reading MFAFF's post. It probably makes sense that the carcass temperature is the critical area for tire performance which would be an additional reason for keeping the old tires on. But I still don't see how they would benefit assuming the tires were only going to last another 10 laps or so, and that they appeared to put in the normal fuel load?
Of course I am speculating on the tire wear, but I'd be amazed if they could have gone for another full stint on those tires if the track had been drying.

Look at the difference between the quali times (say 1:20) and fastest lap time
(1:32)....the potential to go say 10 sec a lap faster on worn inters on a drying track was too great to resist... imagine if they had done it right?

Gaining even 5 secs per lap over LH on new inters as he sought to keep the temps down (remember the McLs are demanding of their tyres)... after 6 laps they would have been a pit stop ahead with all the options... LH would have had to pit for new tyres and fuel to the end...and ended up in the traffic....whereas KR/FA would have been able to time their stop to suit and remained in clear air...big risks...

Love wet races, anything is possible. Not the outcome I was hoping for, but that's racing.

You have made some excellent points and so has Aerkuld and you just touched on the point I was going to make to Aerkuld.


Hambone is really hard on tires and Kimi is really easy on them and when needed can take care of them. You cannot compare Hambones distance on a set of tire to much anyone else on the grid.

Bottom line? Amazing race, even though my guys did not win it was a fun fun race to watch, tons of action lots of passing and plenty of drama.

I will probably be reading tech articles all week about this race. It was a lot of fun.

You say that Kimi isn't as hard on his tires, but did you see the state of his tires on that first stop? Even the commentators pointed out that they looked in bad shape compared to Alonso's.
I do see your point though that you probably can't compare Hamster's tire wear to anyone elses.

I particularly like reading MFAFF's and Jim's posts on F1, always well thought out. I do agree that IF the tires had been quicker even for 10 laps then they would have had a significant advantage. Maybe the teams don't have particularly accurate data on the grip levels of part worn inters on a drying/not drying surface and just took the gamble? Like I said, I still don't believe that they put in what appeared to be a normal fuel load, but then who knows what information they had a the time. It's easy to point out the flaws once you know it didn't work!

I don't know. Jim's got that slight tifosi bias. ;) :D

To me, the choice was between new intermediates or new full-wets. Leaving on the existing set of intermediates was not even a valid option, IMO.

With new intermediates, you can deal with a track that continues to dry or up to moderate rain.

With new full wets, you can deal with rain in any quantity, and have a significant advantage over those running intermediates if it rains more.

With a stale set of intermediates, you neither have sufficient wet traction and run the risk of marbling and overheating if it continues to dry.

Yes it is, I was livid mad at Domenicali after the race. Once you think about it though IF it had stopped raining and the track dried up after 3-5 laps his move and Briatore's move would have been good ones and put Kimi and Fernando out in front.
Maybe...


Who knows, Hambone redeemed himself this past weekend after 2 miserable races in a row, he needed this and now we have a 4 way dogfight for the Championship.

You cannot ask for a better season. No one guy dominating and its up for grabs still at the 1/2 way point.

I'm no expert on F1 by a long shot. It does seem though, that a lot of folks are down on Hamilton. I can't quite figure out why. How many people came closer to winning a championship as a rookie, than he did.

Is his car as good as the Ferraris? Doesn't seem to be.
Does his team get similar treatment from the lord, god, Bernie? Doesn't seem to.
He's as polite & humble in interviews as he possibly could be.

What gives?

Yes, I am biased towards the red cars, but I am not blinded to the point as to not recognize when another team has done well and I said it early on in this thread, Hamilton and McLaren did an awesome job.

I am looking forward to the German Grand Prix in 2 weeks.

Maybe I needed more than one winking smiley and a couple more grinning ones, too. ;)

Very entertaining race. I wonder why Kovy was not able to cope as well with the track? Whitmarsh said it was due to tire graining but that is a heat issue, not likely to cause the car to spin in the rain.

I wonder what was going on with Massa's car? I thought maybe the Ferraris have something low in the rear that was dragging in the water, causing their cars to spin. They certainly did not bring their wet weather configuration to Silverstone. You can't pin the entire thing on tires. Ferrari had a RARE race in which they got it completely wrong.

Congratulations to Hammy. He drove the race of his career and deserved the win.

Lot's of reasons I guess Mule. You can chalk it up to various things I suppose. I didn't think to much of him until his comment in Monaco last year about "the monkies at the back". From there he seemed to rub me the wrong way and he started to become a threat to my favorite driver. So naturally I was starting to dislike him.

It made Kimi's win very emotional for me, so perhaps I like the drama of it. It's undeniable that Lewis has done wonders for F1 and all the sudden you have multiple drivers capable of winning the championship.

Then there is the British media, and the whole "Senna" thing.

A lot of speculations here. You guys sound like you were pros ( maybe some of you are). I wish I knew that much. A lot of times I sit in my couch thinking a team or a driver make the wrong choice. I would have done this or that. But this is the most technically and computer wise complex motor sport in the world (to my knowledge) so I guess they would most likely just pat me on the back and smile at me for giving out opinions or advice. :D

You keep ignoring the fact that both Schumacher and Alonso developed mid pack teams into champions.

Look at Jacques Villeneuve he came in second in the WC in his 1st season then he came in 1st in the second season then declined from that point on. Why?

It has been said he was driving by far the best car in the field benefiting from Damon Hills development. That was good for the year Hill was there (1996) and probably a year after they let him go. (1997)

Once the development of the car declined, coupled with other teams catching up Villeneuve had to be more than just a good driver to hold on the the WC he had to be a Schumacher or Senna and he wasn't he was a good driver in a GREAT car, up until the car stopped developing and the other teams caught up.


His car in 2007 was probably better than Ferrari, who, after a dismal 2005 and recovering 2006 went back to the F2004 chassis to develop the F2006 car was playing catch up with McLaren. Remember during the 2005 and 2006 seasons F1 was changing the tire rules and they caught Ferrari out in the cold with a less developed tire. (this is a whole other story you might want to search it out and read)

In 2007 Kimi joins Ferrari, no longer benefiting from Schumachers in race development but still getting input from him during testing. New driver, new car, new tires for him. Does McLaren have an edge? It sure seemed so, a rookie got in a well developed car and gave a 2 time WC a run for his money. Just like Villeneuve did with hill.

Here we are in 2008 and it seems from track to track either team has a leg up on the other, all along having BMW nipping at their heals. Is BMW getting fast while Ferrari and McLaren are stationary?


I am so sick of this one, last year Lewis got a lift out of the kitty litter and continued to race, how was that allowed? So many times McLaren gets away with stuff, the front wing this year is a perfect example, it moves, it is breaking the aero rule and nothing is done about for almost 1/2 the season. Ferrari did the same thing the year before and after 2 races is ordered to get rid of it.

This is tin foil hat stuff this favorite team crap.

You mean like when he makes claim like this:

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3478_3774739,00.html


And the media hype is already starting after his first win in 3 races and making an @ss out of himself in the last 2 suddenly he is among the best British Grand Prix drivers. Kind of an insult to other champs, especially when he has not won a WC yet, if ever.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3788278,00.html

What Jim said.

..is all crap...

Dennis

Care to elaborate?

yes and no, not much of a fan of long and elaborate arguments on the web.

My main point is that F1, like most things, is a team sport. I won't deny that any of the drivers mentioned are world class and some of them (like Schumacher) were able to provide better feedback to the engineering staff than others. Some of that is his innate skill, some was that he was backed up by a few really excellent people on the engineering side that were able to take his feedback and turn it into innovation and better machinery...which he in turn took advantage of.

I guess I just object to anyone who says that only Schumacher had that talent and anyone else who got to be WC did it riding on someone else's coat tails only. Yes Villeneuve took advantage of Damon's development, but he did drive the car on his own and he was not without skill. Clearly when he went to a poorly structured team (Honda) he did not have the management gift to bring structure there...I think Schumacher would have done better in that regard, but I suspect he would have failed only slightly less miserably than Jacques did.

As for the "Ferrari" advantage... I think Ferrari has learned to manage the FIA while Mclaren has not.....it is just I hate political players like Ferrari appears to be. Ferrari does not cheat in this space, just they understand that by kissing the right buttocks and sucking hard when needed, while distasteful, will get them an easier time of it. Clearly Ferrari chooses their moments to dig in and play the long term....they take their penalties when they have to and cry great big walrus tears at the time. I don't respect that...I'd rather have a straight up call of BS a la Ron Dennis, albeit that gets him into no end of trouble, especially when they do stupid stuff like the technical documentation issue of last year. BTW, read the transcript of the hearing that led to the fine...Captain Kangaroo Court at a minimum. In no way was it deserved...

As for Lewis. Young, extraordinarily talented, reasonable amount of ego considering all he is in...and probably not yet grown up into his driving. Is he a car developer, I sadly fear that he is not....but I could be and hope to be wrong. But give him a good engineering team, back him up with some solid development drivers, I think he will go very far. I mean, give the guy a break...he is what..all of 22 years old? I was barely housebroken at that age.

So, as a guy that used to be totally in love with Ferrari....I now pray anyone other than Ferrari wins...and I will continue to do so until they go back to the spirit of Enzo, and then I will cheer their losses....

Dennis

PS - on a positive side, I think that F1 is at a crossroads. Masochistic Max is almost out, hopefully we get some regulations that restrict aero soon without to much Nascar in them...back to racing a la Silverstone on Sunday.

PPS - You do need to give Mclaren credit for running a good, well strategized and well driven race. 3 cars on the lead lap? Something went well and had a bit of good luck to boot

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3788278,00.html

Bernie: Lewis is F1's walking billboard


What was that about similar treatment.

Let me see if I can find where Bernie says the world Champ, Kimi is F1's billboard... it might take a while.....