Deal gone bad... not sure how to handle it
 

About 7 weeks ago my friend and I ordered sails for our 22' sailboats. We negotiated a package deal for a very good price. My friend had to do some back & forth as he decided exactly what he wanted, so when it was all finally sorted out he had it all billed (~$2500) to his Visa, and I paid him for my sail.

I ordered:
-Furling genoa in Silver Dacron with white UV strip
-CDI roller furler

My friend ordered:
-Furling genoa in white dacron with blue UV strip
-CDI roller furler
-mainsail
-Blue boom cover

He was supposed to send out the roller furlers right away, but forgot to. No big deal, because we both ended up having a LOT more work to do on our boats and haven't launched yet. The sails were supposed be be delivered in 4 weeks, but took 7. Again, not a huge deal in the end, but could have been an issue if we'd been waiting for the items in order to launch.

Anyway, because they were large packages, we had them shipped to Maine (from New York), and drove across the border to pick them up on Friday.

When we collected the packages at the shipping wharehouse, we found:

-My friend's sails are perfect, but his boom cover is missing
-My sail was done in white dacron, not silver.

The sail is really nicely made, and I got a good deal on it.... but it's the wrong color.

I emailed the sailmaker that night:


He replied at ~3AM:

My response:

He replied:

My last email to him:

Anyway, I'm torn about what to do.

Sending it all back would cost ME ~150, and then I'd be without a sail for the rest of the summer.

However, the whole deal was done on my friend's CC, and he still has the boomcover missing. I don't want to create a situation where the sailmaker doesn't send my buddy his items.

If it was mid-winter I'd be more likely to send it back and deal with the complications & hassle, but I'd really like to just get sailing again and maybe I could live with the "plain" sail.

It is a good sail, and it was a good price, but it's really gnawing at me.... it's not what I ordered. This was a "custom" made sail I waited 7 weeks for, not something I just picked up off the shelf.

My wife thinks I'm too picky and my expectations are too high. Am I being a fuss-a$$? Should I just live with it?

Adding the word "disappointing" in your 1st email would have put me off a bit. Always make phone calls for 1st contact to avoid this.

But I wouldn't be happy about a different color either.

I'd be pissed. This guy seems to have no concept of how to conduct business. By waiting 7 weeks for his sail, you've been prevented from getting it in time elsewhere. Is it possible to ask him to put a rush on and deliver what you ordered real quick? Can you threaten legal action, making him liable for someone else to provide what you ordered at whatever reasonable cost it takes to get it ASAP?

I agree that is disappointing - unfortunately it is also not unusual.

What is unusual, however, is the price. $2500 for all of that is almost unheard of. Sunbrella isn't cheap these days - nor are brand new sails. I honestly can't imagine how they could have sold three new sails and two furlers for that money - even on 22 footers.

The sailmaker handled that badly - but you did get a great price. You could always have a local sailmaker add the blue sacrificial Sunbrella over the winter - it wouldn't be a big deal to do.

Overall, despite the crappy behavior of the sailmaker, I'd be resolved in the knowledge that it was all had for a great price. Two and a half boat bucks is a score for all of that.

Good luck with it.

I spotted the problem:

I would have called, rather than e-mail. E-mail is inherently more confrontational than a telephone call, studies have shown that e-mail tends to escalate conflicts. It's a weird thing.

You ordered silver, you got white. It's not what you paid for and he didn't deliver what he said he would - end of story.

If he couldn't get the silver, he should have made a phone call to get your okay for a substitution before proceeding.

You are entitled to either a credit on a mutually-agreed-upon value of the silver versus white material OR a full money-back/return negation of transaction, whichever you prefer. Depends what's going to make you happier here. Personally I'd stick it to the guy for being a prick and demand the full $2,500 back and return the sail. But you may decide that a simple credit will satisfy things.

Either way, I think you're entitled to something here and I wouldn't be the least bit shy about going after it. Guys like this frankly p1ss me off - bait-and-switch bull****. Either that or simply lazy, non-communicative, unprofessional schlockers. I can't stand either.

Yup, eBay.

The guy offered you a refund so send it back and be done with it.

I'm amazed people will surf eBay to find a *deal* and then a spend *hours* going back and forth about something that isn't right. You've admitted you won't be happy looking at it for 10+ years, so send it back and be done with it. Next time call the guy direct.

I'm not saying you're in the wrong per say, but take your taps and move on before you don't see a refund at all.

Then I'm glad I didn't send my first draft, which said "shocked and pi$$ed"
You must have thin skin for a guy selling cars!:D:p

He's offered a full refund, but it would cost me ~$130-150 to ship it down there and I would have no sail all summer.

The CDI FF2 furlers are ~$400 retail
The sails worked out to ~500-550 each.

Yeah, a really good price for what look like nicely made sails. But I feel like I ordered the soup of the day, and they substituted it for a steak without asking me if I'd like it well done or rare.

The seller advertises on ebay, and that's how I found him. But all communication was through email. In the end, I wish it had been through ebay... I think he would have been more concerned about feedback.

100% true, in retrospect.

The white & silver are teh same price.

Part of the problem is that the whole order was lumped together with my friend's sails... my end was ~1k. (One "boat buck", as trap put it. I like that!).

He's offered me a refund, but the shipping cost & lost sailing time makes a bad deal worse. A credit would be ideal, but realistically the sailmaker's margins were tight on these sails.

I'm leaning towards what trap says... I got a good deal and will probably just have to live with the colour

It wasn't an ebay deal. I found him on ebay but all communication was by phone and email.

It would be worth my while to just send the sail back, but shipping the sail, furler & extrusions would cost ME ~$150.

Maybe a dumb thought - but is it possible to have the sail dyed/colored?

Even if they're the same price, perhaps you could work out a mutually acceptable credit value because it's not what you ordered. . . I still think you're 100% in the right here. At the very least, this guy is not putting "customer first" and as such, probably deserves a little slap for it.

Maybe a dumb thought - but is it possible to have the sail dyed/colored?

Even if they're the same price, perhaps you could work out a mutually acceptable credit value because it's not what you ordered. . . I still think you're 100% in the right here. At the very least, this guy is not putting "customer first" and as such, probably deserves a little slap for it.

Not sure you understood my post. I'm wondering if he's legally obligated to mitigate your damages- i.e. you get what you ordered from somewhere else and he pays the difference. Or, preferably, he delivers on a rush basis what you ordered and waited 7 weeks for. He should cover the return shipping, too. But he doesn't seem to have a clue about what the right thing to do is.

I don't see anything wrong with your e-mails to him, BTW. They seem calm, direct, and honest.

If as you say its a really well made sail, I'd just keep it and use someone else next time. After the expense and aggravation of shipping it back, being without the sail, etc, etc. you're better off with the sail in hand. You didn't get exactly what you wanted but the package deal wasn't a rip off either, so financially you're probably ahead.

Just my .02

Jake you appear to already be leaning towards keeping the sail. You got a good deal. You don't want to lose a fun summer of sailing. It is not the end of the world. Keep the sail. Go sailing. Have fun.

Perhaps I'm legally entitled to have him make it right, but I don't really want to start chasing after someone who doesn't seem to be concerned with what's "right". Plus, I've done the small claims route before and it's a lot of time & effort... certainly not worth my time for ~1k.

My last small claims case was around this same #$%@ boat, and in that case I did have other businesses correct ~$3k of damage and missing items, and the seller had to pay.

FWIW, that case centered around the "as delivered" condition of the boat... the seller dismasted the boat while sailing it to our place, and left it tied to a wharf with the broken mast & torn sails hanging in the water. Then a few months later it was vandalized in my driveway during a stike, and had to be repainted.

I subsequently named the boat Ms Fortune.

Yep. Maybe that's the best route.

I'll probably just cause myself more hassle and headaches by pursuing it. If it was a local seller I'd probably just stomp around and TALK REAL LOUD after work, but this guy's in Barker, NY and it's not worth the hassle of emailing & calling.

I probably would have dropped the issue if he'd initially just said "You're right, I should have emailed you, I apologize"

It's just color. Learn to like the color and have a long and happy sailing career with your boat.

Here's the problem with making a big deal about it, in addition to the cost, time and hassle. I represent manufacturers and sometimes retailers. They make mistakes and sometimes get into situations like this, which I sometimes have to get them out of. There is a difference between sending someone the wrong item and sending them the right item but the wrong color. One is a breach of contract; the other might be just poor customer service.

If the value between white and silver is the same, and it's a custom unit, the doctrine of economic waste might protect the seller, so that your measure of damages is the difference between the value of the goods as ordered and the value of the goods as received. If there is no difference, your measure of damages is either nothing, or a nominal amount that compensates you for having to accept the wrong color.

In either case, from a personal point of view, it would be a shame to waste a perfectly good sail because it was the wrong color, just to make an identical one in the right color. Keep the sail and tell the story every time someone asks you how you got the only silver sails in the marina. Put the good karma into the bank.

Jake, Just ditch your silver boat shoes and go out and buy some white ones and everything will be "matchy-matchy". :p

The problem is I ordered a silver one so that I wouldn't have a white genoa & white main (my main is ~3 years old) that don't match because one is older than the other. That is precisely what I was trying to avoid, and why my friend ordered TWO sails at once.

FWIW, I had a white genoa I could have had recut for the furler, but opted to buy this silver sail instead.

Ha! That's what I had been hoping to do, but got a white sail instead.

Either way, I'm going to let the issue drop with a final, terse email.

I think in the end you should keep the sail, but you should try make sure that the sailmaker understands he really dropped the ball, when he didn't need to at all.

Sorry, Jake. I have to start reading posts more carefully before I respond!

I think your plan is sound. It sucks, but what are you going to do? Any solution makes the problem worse.

The guy didn't want to lose a sale since he didn't have what you originally wanted. So he sends you the wrong thing hoping you wont notice/wont care enough to make it an issue.

You get screwed - thats part of life. Is a wrong color worth losing a season of sailing and the cost of shipping it back (not even including the fact that you might not get a good deal in the future)? That should be your deciding factor.

Demanding a full refund of the entire order as reparations probably wont get you anywhere so I wouldn't play that card...

I've had a few cars that I purchased, where I wasn't really crazy about the color. One was Bahama Yellow, and the other was a really dark pearlized colbalt blue. The funny thing is, they were great cars, and over time, I really started to like the colors. I'm thinking that as long as you have a quality sail, the color (or in this case lack of) is something you'll get used to.

Bottom line is, you say it's a quality sail, and the guy did offer your money back, so you do have two options. Keep it and enjoy the upcoming season or return it and endure a season feeling bitter about not having a sail at all.

You could perhaps settle it by asking for a discount or a credit towards a future purchase.