What direction in software development?
 

I need to advise someone on what would be a good area to get into if they wanted to be a developer. No clue where to point them. I'm a network guy, not my forte.

Thoughts?

Java and .net are hot right now.

Web 2.0, application servers, mash-up technologies (Google gears, Yahoo pipes)

It's a toss-up between COBOL and Fortran. :)

Assuming they're really interested in development (rather than computers in general) I'd look into .NET, Ruby on Rails, mobile application dev (i.e. for your cell/blackberry/iPhone), and good old Java.

Actually, there's some truth to that- COBOL developers are getting hard to find as the old geezers die off. A good COBOL developer has a nice long-term ticket.

Video Games

.NET, C#, IronRuby if they are interested in the MS stuff.

How about SAP?


BTW, screw being a developer ----- how about DBA! The ticket nowadays is having skills that can't be outsourced to Philippines, China, India, ........

.ASP, .Net, and SQL, and of cousre Java

Thats good advice, I just wrapped a project called "VDI" (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure.) We deployed a few new farms of servers and about 800 virtual desktops to date. Subsequently we let 800 domestic developers go when we turned those new desktops over to India. We now have no domestic software development , and we were one of the larger employers of software engineers.

Been doing computer crap since the punch card days. I have seen VisiCalc, SuperCalc turn into Excel. Saw this turn into that; saw the mighty Cobol programmers turn unemployed (saw them literally die too); know companies who hired a bunch of contractors to upgrade their system and let old-timers get let go..... you name it.

I think I am still in the game due to a) people skills and b) problem-solving skills ---- (though I do not know how much longer I would last :p).

Again, the key is to not get outsourced

80% of our DBA's are offshore.

Ugh, bet we follow suit on that.

You never know...it's not been hailed as the wisest move. Only reason it really got support was that we were fat on headcounts. Had about 3x the number of people the job should have taken.

The key anymore is efficiency and delivery.

I've been working on predictive modeling and business rules for a few years. Every year, our workload grows by an order of magnitude.

I helped developed a system that allows our business partners to use a UI to define business rules and generate an application. Changes can be made to systems in hours/days that used to take months/years. It is great for highly volatile rules that need to change frequently.

I'm looking into becoming a DBA.

I think that off-shoring as a trend will fade, for two reasons:

1) The cost of doing business with India is going up. Wage inflation is up and the dollar is down.

2) For many businesses, it is their processes that give them a competitive advantage. Outsourcing the implementation of these processes leaves you vulnerable to having those processes copied as well as having them implemented incorrectly.

+1.

Meh. The language isn't as important as the industry. New languages are easy to learn, picking a profitable and progressive software industry that won't turn you into a mind-numbed drooling pale basement dwelling green-screen coder is the trick.

Unfortunately it usually takes a few years as one of the above to get a job that's really worth working at. I'd tell him to do a few years of penance in an SAP/Oracle/Accenture/etc. job, get the salary up, then go look to do it for someone interesting.

If he were to pursue this, would he just start will C++, then move on to learn a particular development studio?

My best friend, who is a member of this BBS, just got back into video game development. You can PM him at TimothyFarrar.

If he doesn't answer you (and he is busy working long hours right now), pester me and I'll let him know he has PMs.

C++ is required, VB is good to know, Maya scripting as well.

What is used is really dependent on the type of game being built, shooter, puzzle, turn based etc...

Sometimes you will build a proprietary engine, sometimes you'll license something like the Unreal Engine.

Then there are the differences in programming for Windows, the xbox, PS3, Wii etc..

It's long hours, frustrating work but there are very few industries that I'd work in instead.

Did a stint with CA, wanted to shot myself.

That's funny, 'cause I want to shoot CA right about now...

Cali or Computer Associates?

If the later can I give you a list?

Yes, the latter.

They've continuously delayed an enhancement that I asked for two years ago.

I actually kinda shot myself in the foot.

I had a very specific request for an enhancement to the Aion language. CA quickly accepted my request because it was really a no-brainer. The guy working on it had to follow-up with IBM on several things to make my enhancement work. IBM was so impressed with the questions he was asking, they offered him a job...

I'm still waiting for my enhancement.

Only two years?

They are such a corp bureaucracy that it takes them 5x's as long to do something as the next guy.

Know a VP there, used to gauge his staffs performance by the number of unread emails they had.

He personally had 3000 unreads and was proud of it.

His philosophy was if you are reading email you are not working hard enough.

He used to say "I've never missed a deal because of it" I used to say to him, How do you know?

So every project he sent my way via email never got done. When he *****ed I'd just say, sorry, too busy to read mail. Used to make him go bats**t.

Web development likely offers the path of least resistance for someone just starting out. As others have mentioned, have him/her pick one of these:

http://www.asp.net/

http://java.sun.com/

Learning the corresponding database technologies is a must. XML/XSLT should be learned. HTML and JavaScript are assumed.

http://www.rubyonrails.org will likely be the other choice down the road, but either of the two technologies above is the way to go right now.

X++ (Microsoft Dynamics (Axapta)), this is so really hot. In my wife's company they have ads worldwide to get developers and they can't find any. They can only find consultans and these usually from Denmark make an obscene amount of money..
In my view Java and other common stuff you will be competing with new-grads willing to work for low wages.

IMO just being a code slinger or technologist is not sufficient to ensure a high income or continued employment. You need to develop some domain knowledge and find a niche in which you'll develop expertise and make yourself extremely valuable and difficult to replace/outsource. The combination of suitable technological skills + expertise in a particular field (medical / accounting / HR / MRP / CRM / videogames / etc.) or with a particular packaged app (SAP, MS Dynamics, etc.) is the ticket.

FWIW...my brother was one of the original developers of Aion and left immediately when they were acquired by CA...clearly it was a good move.

This is absolutely true. Easy $100-120K/yr for a seasoned person to fix bugs created by dead guys. And it is an incredibly easy language to learn for anybody with a procedural programming background. As I recall it took me 3 days to become proficient way back when.

The only thing I know about computer programming is that I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in ever doing computer programming. This is after being forced (for whatever reason) to take a semester of FORTRAN and two semesters of C++ in college. I remember virtually nothing about it (other than I despised every wretched minute of it except for the "puzzle solving/algorithm development" part, when applicable) and it hasn't negatively affected my life in one bit.

My $0.02 is that rather than trying to become a programmer, become a software engineer - the guy who actually conceptually designs the software, decides what functions it should/should not have, interfaces, etc. Then assigns actually coding those tasks to the production grunts.

My understanding is most programming is outsourced these days anyway.

Can't speak for other industries, but in mine a software engineer is in fact the one slinging code. The position you describe above is an architect.

The way I describe it to outsiders is that a software development group does not make software, it makes houses.

The CTO owns a construction company.

The Architect works with the future owners of the house to determine what it is they want built and give feedback based on experience, e.g. "I know you'd like to have 18.3 foot ceilings, but we can cut the cost by going with a standard dimension. Also, the skylight in the bathroom might have probelems with condensation during the winter. What if we replaced it with XYZ instead?" They then use their expertise and knowledge of the lot, the local building codes, etc to create blueprints for the house that fits the customer's needs and budget.

Once the Architect has created his blueprints, he hands them off to the Project Manager. The project manager is the foreman of the construction company. he knows how to work with all of the builders to deliver the house on time and on spec. The PM knows enough about architecture to read and understand the blueprint and make sure that the builders don't accidentally turn the bathroom into a bedroom, and he uses his experience to break the project into practical chunks (e.g. let's create the foundation before we start framing.)

The Software Engineers and Developers are the ones who actually build the house under the direction of the PM, with occasional clarifications from the architect. They have different specialties (one might be a guru for building a strong foundation, another is the drywall guy and another does finish carpentry) and they work together to build the house.

This is of course an oversimplified version of things and differs substantially from company to company, but it's how things work in my experience.

Makes sense (I do know something about construction and architecture in particular. . . ;) ). I'm just thinking that long-term it would be much more advantageous to be one of the guys that can DEVELOP software, conceptualize it, figure out what market segments it needs to appeal to, find deficiencies in competing/similar products and meet them (or devise a plan to meet them), etc. than it would be to just be a guy who happens to be good in the programming-language-of-the-month.

There were some aspects of the courses I took that were fascinating, but it reassured me that aspiring to be a PROGRAMMER was a surefire way to spend a lot of time standing in unemployment lines. Probably the best thing one could do is find a stable platform that's going to be around a while (Windows?) and learn the ins and outs of the various APIs and libraries, then convince someone to hire you on the basis of that - as a person who can coordinate the implementation of software being developed for a particular platform to that operating system. That might be doable. Or as discussed above, try to be more of a designer/conceptualizer.

I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to actually code/program stuff. It's just one of those things that holds zero appeal to me, it seems to have very little value and long-term career potential, and it's highly unstable as a job choice. . .

Just my $0.02 - YMMV.

Yes, I know that you know something about architecture :D

I agree that it's more interesting/rewarding to be the guy who can work out the solution to the problem and frame that solution into something that can be built by the actual coders. It's rare to find an experienced software engineer to who doesn't secretly do some architecture work, and it's rare to find an architect who didn't start out as a software engineer.

I'll second that. We know there are plenty of guys making a good living at this, some people making a ton of cash, but for the vast majority, coding is probably a stepping stone. Coders, in general, are not looked upon by the corporate world as the goto-guys in the promotion pool. (No offense to the coders here, that's a generalization and it wasn't targeted towards all.) That said if that's his skill-set, certainly he wants to get his start there, but I'd make sure he gets as well rounded as he can and start branching out to new opportunities. Then again, if you can be happy and content with that position, it's great and peace and contentment with your job is a HUGE thing.

With what I know now, if I was going to look for a job programming, rather than targeting a general IT position in coding I'd focus on a more dynamic position. For example: Presales/Sales technical support. These guys help build out demonstration environments for the sales teams for software companies. They are very highly respected and seen as essential to the sales efforts. For smaller software companies such as my own, they are invaluable. Our sales teams go out and demo product week after week and need assistance in creating these tailored demos. The guys on my team that do this are incredibly in demand and get as much recognition as the guys out in the field actually doing the sames.

People hired into this position generally do need some experience so if yoru friend is green, he may have to pay dues for a few years first.

Wow. Thank you all for the advice.

While an Architect role sounds ideal, isn't he going to need some experience and perhaps further education to get into these roles?

That's like saying a guy should become a stunt pilot rather than learning how to fly...

How in the hell is someone going to design software, functions, interfaces, meet performance requirements (low/no bandwidth, disconnected ops) if they don't have any experience using the stuff?

Tishabet is closer to reality though rallying behind a SW Architect and/or PM with no applied experience would be foolish.

Absolutely. Many years of experience showing success at all levels of software development.

I understand the portability of Java, but other than that.......arghhhh!

I will go out of my way not to use Java. It's so slow, and resource intensive.....and not pretty.

Make it go away, please.

Isn't there something better?

Agreed, you become an architect not through training alone (although you certainly need the skill set) but largely through experience. That's why most architects have come from a development background... they've put in the time and have the experience and aptitude to start designing the bigger picture.