Private pilots and bus drivers

[Rick V]

Ok I am thinking of getting my pilots license and starting an air taxi service. (I need to get out of the automotive industry before I lose what is left of my mind)
I am looking for opinions from pilots, good , bad or whatever. If you were to go back in time, knowing what you know now, would you do it again?

[widgeon13]

Why not just get your private, instrument and commercial ratings and see how the situation looks at that time. It's actually a very competitive business depending on where you are going to be based.

[Tim Hancock]

The problem with flying for a living, is that unless you come directly from the military, it takes a long time making very little money to accumulate enough hours of experience to land the better paying jobs. That is fine for some youngsters, but an older adult would have to basically be financially able to essentially work for free for several years to build this time in progressively bigger/complicated aircraft. The kind of aircraft that you need to build time in are too expensive for a private individual to buy or rent just to build hours..... Sucks, but that is the way it is.

Every once in awhile you will hear of someone who was able to fast track it a bit, but that is rare.

[lendaddy]

Not true Tim, he could be running low altitude drug drops almost immediately. Money and excitement right out of the gate.

They will need pictures of your children and the names of their schools. Without the children there is no deal.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Not true Tim, he could be running low altitude drug drops almost immediately. Money and excitement right out of the gate.

They will need pictures of your children and the names of their schools. Without the children there is no deal.

HMMMM..... I hate my present job and I do like flying

[Rick V]

Hmmmmmmmmm low drug drops in the mountians of Virginia. That has a nice ring to it.

[air-cool-me]

The problem with flying for a living, is that unless you come directly from the military, it takes a long time making very little money to accumulate enough hours of experience to land the better paying jobs. That is fine for some youngsters

pretty much spot on..

hows starting at $23 an hour... at say,, 75 hours a month... before taxes? food stamps?
you are considering an industry that perpetually goes bankrupt..

now child smuggling and drug running? thats money in the bank$$$$!

[Zef]

No kidding...find something else...really.

[nostatic]

I hear Greyhound is hiring. You good with a knife?

[varmint]

a guy i used to work with took out something like 40k in loans to get a helicopter pilot's license. he was convinced it was a quick way to a high paying exciting career.

lost track of him a while back. wonder how it turned out.

[Zeke]

Rick, the world is full of people with a dream or idea. If you want to fly, go learn. But making a business out of a hobby, or other advocation is seldom a good idea. The best business people don't really care what the actual business is, they run businesses pretty much all the same.

Aren't you a mechanic? What about selling/marketing/inventing specialty tools? Island's valve adjustment tool is begging to be made. Look at the Sir Tools catalog for some examples.

If someone were to put together the simplest, plastic pipe component rear bearing puller/installer, people would buy it. Why? It saves time from going to the store and getting all the pieces and way too many feet of each to make the thing. One 20 foot section of schedule 80 and some other parts and you could make 40 of them.

Just an example.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by milt

Rick, the world is full of people with a dream or idea. If you want to fly, go learn. But making a business out of a hobby, or other advocation is seldom a good idea. The best business people don't really care what the actual business is, they run businesses pretty much all the same.

I agree and disagree. I agree in that often our hobbies and things we love cease to be fun when they become a business. I know lots of musicians that are in that boat.

That being said, I believe in trying to "love what I do" for a living. I could never make it in the business world where I don't give a crap about the product or service I'm involved in. I've avoided a number of lucrative career moves because I wasn't moved by the work. I'm financially poorer for the decisions, but happier (I think - depends on how next week goes ).

[KNS]

While I love flying and I could never trade my job for a desk, you will sometimes hear some pilot pipe up and say "If I could just get out of aviation". I know I've thought it from time to time...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

To hold yourself out as a commercial pilot you'll need a commercial certificate and a Part 135 operating certificate from the F.A.A. Good luck with that - have fun.

For insurance purposes it behooves you (tremendously) to have an instrument rating also and at least 1,000 hours in make/model.

Smart thing would be to start the business, acquire the aircraft and hire out the maintenance & flying parts. Even then, it's hard to make it profitable especially given the current costs of fuel.

I looked into something similar to this a few years back when I was instructing for a living. Very hard to make money in aviation. In fact there's a saying, "how do you make a small fortune in aviation? Start with a large one."

[Rick V]

Thanks for all the input guys, I think I am going to simply go for my license and just fly to relax. As far as doing what you love for a living I have to agree with Ya milt. I used to love working on cars, hell it is the only thing I am really good at, but is has become a burden. My job has become just that a job.
I have already layed down my weekend work, and dread monday mornings. The air Taxi is something I have been thinking about for a few years now but I recon I will just keep looking for a new profession. I am done with cars.

[avi8torny]

ENLIST....that's what I would have done if I had to do it again. The only way to make a small amount of money flying for a living is starting with a large amount of money.

With flight time and no commercial pilot's rating you are not employable. If you thought flying an EMS helicopter would be something you would be interested in, typical Helicopter EMS operations look for Helo pilots that have thousands of hours, not hundreds of hours in helicopters. And I'm not talking thousands of hours in a Robinson R-22. You want to teach flying? Flight instructors usually wear shirts that say "will fly for food", that's how bad it is. How bout a regional airline pilot? When ACA was in business on the east coast, their new hires would get paid $200 week while they were in training which lasted 7 weeks. That was less than 10 years ago. Their starting salaries when they moved to the line was about $2500/month based on a minimum of 75 hours of flight time per month.

So maybe you want to buy an airplane and fly paying customers around. You want something pressurized, used King Air would fit the bill, pony up $2million for that. Insurance? Hanger? Pilot training? Someone to handle the FAA paperwork? Charts? Landing Fees? Catering? oh, I forgot....fuel. It's $7 a gallon and the King Air burns 100 gallons of it every hour of flight.

If you want to fly for a living, the Services are the way to go.

[rattlsnak]

I went from a 15 year ASE master tech to the right seat on a regional @ 10 years ago.
Seniority, means EVERYTHING..... If I would have started 1 MONTH earlier, I would have upgraded to Captain after 18 months, but instead I stayed as an FO for 7 years before finally upgrading and making an OK living at that point. There are other ways than 121, like corporate, frieght, etc, and everybody you talk to will have a different point of view, but the reality is, if you have the money, the fast track to the regionals is the best/quickest way to build good quality time, and then move on to the fractionals/majors. A lot depends on your age also. Will you be able to fly long enough to enjoy the 'good schedules' of the senior people, or retire flying every Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon for the last 10 years of your career. You see the 25 year old sitting to your left will be there long after you are forced out, and he is senior to you.

Well I could go on and on about several different topics in aviation. Much to much to post here.

What I have learned about aviation over the last ten years is this:

For every pilot that has a great story about how lucky he was about getting hired, or in the right place at the right time, or my Uncle works here, or my parents paid $60K for my flight training, etc... There are 10 pilots whose stories absolutely are horrible. (I havent seen my wife in 10 days/I'm living out of a suitcase in a crashpad/I am on food stamps (seriously)/I wish I could get ONE holiday off this year.. etc..

Now all that being said, It truly is one of the greatest jobs you will ever do.

[Embraer]

Don't do it for a career. Do it for fun. FBO's are hurting for business right now, so you might be able to shop around (even with gas prices where they are) . Once you get your private, try and ride around with a 135 guy who flys checks around. You wont be able to log the time, but you can see what it's like, flying right seat at night, in crappy wx. I fly for one of the best "regionals" around (even though we're technically a major airline), and it's still just a flying job. No panache, little cool-factor, and only decent money. I made more money (net) selling a couple of my cars last year (in one month) then I made on a whole year of 2nd year FO pay.

Make lots of money doing something that's quasi-fun (and not so cyclical as aviation) and then be a weekend warrior and fly for fun. iI think most of my pilot buddies here don't really care what they fly. i know i'd take a 70K a year Cessna 172 job (ha ha) with nights and weekends off, compared to a 70K a year job, flying 727's (with a poor schedule). It's all about quality of life.

As for getting into charter stuff, it's a pretty tough market. It's all about who you know, and there are many, many little costs that will destroy a business very quickly. Maintenance and Insurance are two biggies.

All in all, it's a decent career, but remember...the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[MT930]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

The problem with flying for a living, is that unless you come directly from the military, it takes a long time making very little money to accumulate enough hours of experience to land the better paying jobs. That is fine for some youngsters, but an older adult would have to basically be financially able to essentially work for free for several years to build this time in progressively bigger/complicated aircraft. The kind of aircraft that you need to build time in are too expensive for a private individual to buy or rent just to build hours..... Sucks, but that is the way it is.

Every once in awhile you will hear of someone who was able to fast track it a bit, but that is rare.

Very True!
I built time fright instructing and flying Part 135 20+ Years ago in collage.
Flying drugs maybe more relaxing, it certainly pays better. That is a up hill climb for a young guy. It would take years to recover your instruction investment. Get your private pilot license first to see if it some thing you want to pursue. 172's are $115.00 Wet per hour.

[Ray B]

Flying is a great job in a very crappy business. Fly because you like the flying- if you get to make a good living out of it-all the better. As others have mentioned- there's no getting around the "dues paying" phase of a flying career either flying dog$hit as a commuter or for Uncle Sam (I did mine in the USN). Having been with a major here in Atlanta for over 22 yrs, there's not much I would change. Timing is everything, and as Rabbitsnack mentioned, the sooner the better. I'm off to London. Cheers.