Thompson rules the crowd!

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Danimal16

Lets see. He was the son of a Navy Admiral.
He was in captivity for five years and refused early release if he cooperated.
He got "SPECIAL TREATMENT" because of his father's status.
He didn't rat his friends out.
He stands on what he believes is the right thing even if his party may not agree with him.
He flew jets into combat.
He puts up with opinions of those that have no clue what special treatment is.

Does that cut it for you.

If my post tells you that I don't respect and have empathy/sympathy for our fighting men and women, especially for those wounded, killed or captured, that is not true; they have my GREATEST respect!

McCain is one of many who suffered as he did. Some suffered even more, I'm sure and some never came home.

It is the ongoing emphasis on McCain's horrific experience, for political purposes, that doesn’t sit right with me.

Many have served no less honorably and have suffered as much as John McCain did. They are ALL to be honored, respected and thanked from the heart for their service to our country. Some, I'm sure, would employ their experience for political gains and some would not even consider doing so, all for their own reasons, reasons which I do not question or criticize because, while I'm a Viet Nam Vet, I was one of the lucky ones who didn't experience the horrors that McCain and others did.

But the whole concept of "beyond the call of duty" and "heroism" is something I think about. All of our military are instructed on what to do if captured by the enemy, what their "duty" is if captured. Those who end up captured and, to the best of their ability (which is expected of our fighting forces), perform that duty as trained to do, have not, by virtue of that fact alone, gone "beyond" the call of duty. They performed their duty as the pledged and are expected to do. Does this, in and of itself constitute heroism?

The term “hero” should apply to ALL who willingly make the sacrifices that joining the military entails. To single out a soldier as “more” heroic than another soldier is understandable, in my opinion, given circumstances wherein the individual not only sacrifices by answering the call to duty, which all volunteers have, but goes beyond that call.

John McCain went beyond the call of duty when he refused the offer to be released based on the military status of his father. There is no question in my mind as to that fact and that was a heroic act for which he deserves the applause and respect he has received, and continues to receive. He did the honorable thing. Would others in his prison camp have done the honorable thing? I’d like to think that they would have. Would I have done the honorable thing? I’d hope that I would but have NO idea if I’d been able to stand up to what McCain endured without breaking. I readily admit that and hope that I’m never tested as he was.

McCain’s heroism, while I don’t disrespect nor deny it, has nothing to do with the political issues in this choice of President we are about to make. If that offends some people, so be it.

To address your points:

Originally Posted by Danimal16

Lets see. He was the son of a Navy Admiral.

My friend was the son of an insurance man.

He was in captivity for five years and refused early release if he cooperated.

Would he not have been court martialed had he cooperated with the enemy?

He got "SPECIAL TREATMENT" because of his father's status.

I don’t doubt that he did. He was sacrificed by the enemy.

He didn't rat his friends out.

Does that make him special? Really?

He stands on what he believes is the right thing even if his party may not agree with him.

He’s not the first and only one to do that. Might be bad for the party, no?

He flew jets into combat.

My friend was an infantryman.

He puts up with opinions of those that have no clue what special treatment is.

I don’t know how to respond to that statement.

Does that cut it for you.

I understand where you are coming from and I hope I’ve been able to explain where I’m coming from.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Mix of both Tim. Hahahahahah! got yah Tim, this transcends politics, especially when talking about old timers and WWII.

I wouldn't say you got me as some of them were dems. I understand the point about the WWII vets keeping quiet, but on the other hand, I feel it is important for some people to know the hell JM went thru and the strength/resolve he exhibited by surviving it.

Somehow I doubt that any of your grandpa's buddies will change their vote based on this issue, but some fence sitters might.

[Superman]

Mr. Thompson, predictably, used the basest and most unforgivable political tactic ever used by anybody in America. Gubmit-bashing as a marketing tool. Dems identify with government. We understand it, we believe in it and we know what it can do to protect Americans and America. Guilty as charged. It is curious to say the least why we would be expected to respect, or recognize as patriotic, a group of people who don't believe in our government and who actively work to tear it down and undermine public confidence in it for political marketing gain. Firing up Americans' distrust of government is something that if we caught a bunch of Muslims doing it, we would execute them as traitors. Why then do we tolerate one of our political parties doing this routinely?

That is my position. While the Republican platform and tactics seek to attack the government of the United States of America and erode Americans' confidence in its leadership, it will have something of a hard time achieving my support.

And here is something more to consider:

Some of the themes from the current Republican National Convention are, obviously, amusing. For example.....this business about how political party is not as important as American patriotism. McCain is walking a line here that is so thin as to be measurably only in ten thousanths of an inch. He wants to be branded a conservative, but cannot afford to be identified as Republican. Indeed, I heard last night......again......about how Republicans promise to go clean up the mess in Washington. Hmmmmm.....that would be the mess created by the Republican tactics of the last seven years? Republicans are going to fight each other, if elected?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I wouldn't say you got me as some of them were dems. I understand the point about the WWII vets keeping quiet, but on the other hand, I feel it is important for some people to know the hell JM went thru and the strength/resolve he exhibited by surviving it.

Somehow I doubt that any of your grandpa's buddies will change their vote based on this issue, but some fence sitters might.

Did that strength and resolve help John McCain when he chose Lieberman to be his running mate and the Party shut him down? that kind of strength and resolve?

My grandpa's buddies think McCain is a fake. Wearing his POW status is a big no-no, they were mad, as you know how only old guys get kind of mad. The Republicans aren't voting at all, and neither are the Democrats, these guys were very disappointed with our choices. We talked about this while clinging to our guns and talking about how the new Polish priest has doubled the number of butts in the pews, but the temp is too cold so they're working on the HVAC. We weren't bitter though.


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[berettafan]

i don't get what all the excitement is over a speach written by some anonymous staffer. ol' freddy showed what he was really made of when he did his post-announcement interviews. he had zero opinions. he could not have come any closer to saying 'i'm waiting to be told what my opinion is on that'.

it was a real dissappointment for me.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Superman

Republicans are going to fight each other, if elected?

It's going to come down to 2 reformers against the Party.

So far the Party has installed Palin for McCain, but they are betting she'll be too new, inexperienced and therefore weak to fight against it. Both will be puppets of the party, well, one already is.

Just a matter of time.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Did that strength and resolve help John McCain when he chose Lieberman to be his running mate and the Party shut him down? that kind of strength and resolve?
[/img]

Please show us the evidence of this charge. Why are you the only one claiming this and it's not on the news? I'd love to know your inside source.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Please show us the evidence of this charge. Why are you the only one claiming this and it's not on the news? I'd love to know your inside source.

I'm not your newsboy Ricky, but it was Sam Brownback who told me.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I'm not your newsboy Ricky, but it was Sam Brownback who told me.

Translation: "I'm FOS, make up whatever I want and then try to belittle anyone who questions me."

You'd make a great newsboy.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Translation: "I'm FOS, make up whatever I want and then try to belittle anyone who questions me."

You'd make a great newsboy.

translation: I didn't see the interview at the Convention where Brownback stated Lieberman was McCain's first choice because he (Brownback) tested it with the base and it didn't fly and I'm too scared that the interview may be on YouTube and I don't want to find it so I'll attack Shaun instead.

It could be on YouTube. it's probably somewhere. Now skidattle and go find it Ricky.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

translation: I didn't see the interview at the Convention where Brownback stated Lieberman was McCain's first choice because he (Brownback) tested it with the base and it didn't fly and I'm too scared that the interview may be on YouTube and I don't want to find it so I'll attack Shaun instead.

It could be on YouTube. it's probably somewhere. Now skidattle and go find it Ricky.

McCain needed to pick whomever gave him the best chance of winning.... he ultimately picked well. I don't give a ***** how many people discussed this him to help him arrive at choosing the best person to get him elected.

Surely you are not implying that the dems did not have discussions and recommendations for Obama's running mate are you?

You are grasping at straws in your attempts to nitpick here Shaun.

[lendaddy]

Indeed, as if the Dem power brokers didn't tell him who his VP was, I'm sure Obama and Biden are old tennis buddies

I am also quite certain that the power brokers in the Rep party did NOT want Palin either. They may have vetoed Leiberman but there's no way they selected her. If they were selecting for McCain he would have Romney.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

McCain needed to pick whomever gave him the best chance of winning.... he ultimately picked well. I don't give a ***** how many people discussed this him to help him arrive at choosing the best person to get him elected.

Surely you are not implying that the dems did not have discussions and recommendations for Obama's running mate are you?

You are grasping at straws in your attempts to nitpick here Shaun.

Of course the Dems discussed it.

the difference is McCain is running as a maverick. he picked, past tense picked someone, and then was shut down.

Big difference.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Indeed, as if the Dem power brokers didn't tell him who his VP was, I'm sure Obama and Biden are old tennis buddies

I am also quite certain that the power brokers in the Rep party did NOT want Palin either. They may have vetoed Leiberman but there's no way they selected her. If they were selecting for McCain he would have Romney.

Romney? Now that's laughable.

We would have had 2 months of Obama adds of McCain and Romney belittling each other during the primaries. They hate each other. Romney was never a real choice.

I am surprised they didn't pick Fred though. Or KBH.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

translation: I didn't see the interview at the Convention where Brownback stated Lieberman was McCain's first choice because he (Brownback) tested it with the base and it didn't fly and I'm too scared that the interview may be on YouTube and I don't want to find it so I'll attack Shaun instead.

It could be on YouTube. it's probably somewhere. Now skidattle and go find it Ricky.

Well, at least you're able to post some evidence, flimsy though it may be. Still waiting for you to back up last week's charge that I had defended Ted Stevens here many times.

Actually, I did see the interview with Brownback. But I was unaware at the time that he was McCain's spokesperson. I was also unaware that Brownback speaks for the base. He didn't win any delegates to hand off to McCain when he was a candidate and doesn't seem to have influenced many or any of McCain's decisions in the past. I don't think McCain had to hear it from Brownback that picking Lieberman for VP would have caused about the opposite reaction Palin did.

If I told Obama that picking Tim Kaine would have been a bad move, does that mean that his not doing so was a result of my advice? Doubt it.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Well, at least you're able to post some evidence, flimsy though it may be. Still waiting for you to back up last week's charge that I had defended Ted Stevens here many times.

Actually, I did see the interview with Brownback. But I was unaware at the time that he was McCain's spokesperson. I was also unaware that Brownback speaks for the base. He didn't win any delegates to hand off to McCain when he was a candidate and doesn't seem to have influenced many or any of McCain's decisions in the past. I don't think McCain had to hear it from Brownback that picking Lieberman for VP would have caused about the opposite reaction Palin did.

If I told Obama that picking Tim Kaine would have been a bad move, does that mean that his not doing so was a result of my advice? Doubt it.

I'll cherish this post Rick!

[Superman]

As I have said here repeatedly, McCain was a maverick, had his chance to stick to his personal values......AND THEN CAVED. Eight years ago he was victimized by a series of smear campaigns and other dirty tactics, and has been a "good boy" Republican ever since. Would he be at the top of the Republican ticket today if he had continued to pursue his crusade against the Republican establishment? Nope.

I have a LOT of respect for John McCain. Seriously. Honestly, if he represented his own values and independent judgement, I would probably prefer him as a candidate over Obama. But he has made that choice much easier. He set aside his values. I've got a problem with that. And his official agenda is now in lockstep with the Republican war on working Americans. From my perspective, a vote for him would be a vote against America. Okay, let me clarify that. A vote for him would be a vote against the interests of American working families.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Superman

Okay, let me clarify that. A vote for him would be a vote against the interests of American working families.

Putting aside both party's 3-ring dog & pony theatres of the absurd (well, after the final act tonight), I believe you're right.

[jackobleep32]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

The thing that bugs me about McCain and his POW status is that he wears it on his sleeve, uses it as a campaign tool.

I was at my Grandfather's birthday party last weekend. He served in WWII in the Pacific. My great uncle in Europe and was a POW. My grandfather's friends at the party, who also served in WWII, are angry at McCain for constantly bringing up his POW experience.

the Greatest Generation NEVER talks about their experience in WWII. They keep it private and honorable. they gave and they don't expect anything in return.

That is service.

the above is a paraphrase of a bunch of cool old guys riled up about McCain.

Not even comparable. It's a whole nother story when your running for prez.

[jackobleep32]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

My grandpa's buddies think McCain is a fake. Wearing his POW status is a big no-no, they were mad, as you know how only old guys get kind of mad. The Republicans aren't voting at all, and neither are the Democrats, these guys were very disappointed with our choices. We talked about this while clinging to our guns and talking about how the new Polish priest has doubled the number of butts in the pews, but the temp is too cold so they're working on the HVAC. We weren't bitter though.

Right, bitter, cranky old men complaining. What else is new. I salute their efforts in WWII, but really? McCain has great honor - not just for being in a POW camp (that's kindof not really your choice), but refusing to leave when given the chance to. THATS THE DIFFERENCE.

Amazing how many people are so blinded by the rays of light from the Messama that they can't see that.