any knife sharpening experts out there?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by vash

nope not a pro here. all i am good for is aligning the cutting edge. a good knife shop removes material. they use a modified belt sander or something.

Nothing personal, but I hate people like you, just like gun people hate those who dry fire.

Belt sanders??? AAAWWWKKK!!! I hand hone every knife I own or carry, because I don't like to heat treat them. My daily carry knife costs more than most total kitchen sets. I want my knives to outlive me 3 times, not crack and splinter because they got work hardened!

But, this is nothing against you or the average knife owner, because they're never taught the basics of metallurgy when they drop some coin on a $200 kitchen knife set.

[vash]

nothing personal. hate away.

your knife resume is way better than mine. how hot to heat treat a blade?

[vash]

heat treating is not work hardening.

an example of work hardening is bending a cheapo closet hanger, and trying to bend it perfectly back into shape, with the same force. you cant do it.

shot peening is another example. sorry i ruffled your knife sensiblitiies. just my humble opinion on a bbs. nothing else.

[Mule]

I am a sucker for knife sharpening utensils. I have a diamond "stone" for really bad edges (Wal Mart). I have a fine grit Arkansas stone purchased straight from the Smith store in Hot Springs Arkansas, as were my diamond sticks. I never use oil. I use water & dishwashing detergent. It lubricates well enough & the stone stays much cleaner. Nothing beats a stone and skilled hands. IMHO, not many (damn few) hands are that skilled. For a quick touch up, nothing beats my $5 accusharp gadget. It won't give you an edge like a Gillette Fusion. But in a few seconds it will give you a a fine, durable edge for any kitchen or pocket knife. The diamond sticks are my next favorite. I VERY rarely break out the stones, only for a severely damaged edge.

[charleskieffner]

since we have been and continue to be boy scouts, knife sharpening 101 was drilled into our heads at an early age.

first and foremost if you play with knives you will sooner or later cut yerself. it is best to cut yerself with a SHARP KNIFE! a dull knife will leave a jagged cut which will take longer to heal.

alas since we attempt each and every year to be drawn in the az game and fish lottery for some kind of big game to shoot the hell out of, we are in the age group physically and financially, we can actually walk into a cabelas store and not NEED to buy anything since we already have 3-4 of each needed item.

i am constantly amazed at upscale stores and the price of knife sets. and then everyjuan sniviles the quality knives go dull. well thats from using them.

since i have quite a collection of knives and bayonets, for when the mongol hordes attack cave creek,az. , i have acquired a number of knife sharpening tools.

well surprise surprise...........what werks best? the same damn thing i was taught with when i was about 7 years old. a norton grinding stone. wet with oil.

the only product that has come around worth a damn is the diamond flat sharpening sticks in extra fine,fine,medium,coarse. i am impressed with them. have watched numerous people buy lanskys and after a while their gathering dust. too much of a PITA to use.

hunting you will kill the best of knives very quickly skinning/gutting an animal. bigger the animal the more you will need to sharpen knife in the field.

on elk.........replaceable box knives werk best along with my M-9 bayonet which holds quite an edge for awhile. my gerbers and buck knives werk well also holding an edge.

since we have (3) COUNT'EM - THREE BULL ELK TAGS, dont you think we will have this down to a science??????

in my 3 day recon pak along w/my yummy MRE's will be (2) diamond sharpening sticks(medium and fine) along with my lil norton grinding stone and a slew of throwaway box knives.

laugh as you may, but if we get (3) elk..............back at camp will be a honda generator/jobsite dual halogen werk lites/ AND A MILWAUKEE SUPER SAWZALL PLUS w/sawzall 18" blades from hell ready to cut meat and bone all thru the night!

skinning deer isnt so bad. their fairly thin skinned. javelina and elk will waste your blade so fast yer head will spin.

as soon as you feel the blade getting dull............nail it with the diamond stones dry or the norton stone with just a little oil to bring edge back.

techno hint..........sharpen knife as if you are cutting the thinnest piece of cheese. or 22 degrees to the stone. always go down the entire blade.

you have now passed REAL MEN IN THE WOODS SKINNING BIG CREATURES KNIFE SHARPENING 101!

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Nothing personal, but I hate people like you, just like gun people hate those who dry fire.

What makes you think gun people hate dry fire? It's a perfectly acceptable method of practice on most modern firearms.

Snipped.....
I want my knives to outlive me 3 times, not crack and splinter because they got work hardened!

Happens all of the time?

But, this is nothing against you or the average knife owner, because they're never taught the basics of metallurgy when they drop some coin on a $200 kitchen knife set.

We're lucky to have you teach us.

[ramonesfreak]

charles what have you been smokin"

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by vash

nothing personal. hate away.

your knife resume is way better than mine. how hot to heat treat a blade?

I was a bit mouthy last night, I'm sorry. the beer was talking.

What I meant to say was don't use a freaking power tool on your knives!!! I didn't mean to make it personal (I thought I even said that).

You'll remove too much material, you'll expose untreated steel in many cases, and you cannot get an edge like you want because you're not watching it change with each stroke on a stone. You can change the temper of the blade, which might help some of them and will hurt most of them.

I also don't see how using a belt sander would be any faster than a few trips across a stone, as long as you keep up on the manual sharpening. Yes, if you don't do it for 2 years, all while cutting away at chicken bones, it'll take a bit longer to get an edge back by hand. A kitchen steel is only to realign the soft edge of kitchen knives, not to sharpen them...anyone who think's their sharpening their knives by running them along a steel is sorely mistaken, and will soon severely hurt themselves with a dull but scarred knife.

You can't maintain any level of serration with a belt sander.

Finally, you can't put a double edge on a knife with a sander (well, I guess you could, but it would be very hard).

dhoward, yes, I've seen cheap (read, Buck and lower) knives where the metal flakes because of abuse. Cracking, crazing, softening are all symptoms of either extraordinarily cheap knives (Cutco...) or heat abuse (power tools).

You wouldn't let your dog drive your Porsche, why would you let your garage sharpen your kitchen knives?

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by srandallf

charles what have you been smokin"

its obvious from yer statement you are a CITY SLICKER! that has no concept of hunting. you are accustomed to driving to a store and buying yer food. you havent a clue about SURVIVAL SKILLS NOR HUNTING SKILLS!

after 3 days in the wilds of the southwest you would DIE from lack of these skills and i would then take all of your gear and put a rock under yer head and then say "via con dios city slicker"! you probably wear a hatchet on your belt and carry a dull RAMBO wannabe knife with a hollow handle and a compass on top!

[Rot 911]

I still have the same arkansas stone I bought 20 years ago. I find sharpening knives on it to be quite relaxing.

[charleskieffner]

yep im gonna bring a belt sander along elk hunting to sharpen my blades!

knives are kind of like guns. new out of the box..........their ok.............each needs to be brought to its potential by careful honing of the action/scope
bullet selection or in the case of any knife, giving the edge TLC!

i love chefs whipping their knives up and down a sharpening stick, kinda like the morons at benihanas!

butcher a cow, butcher an elk/antelopezzz/deer/javelina and tell me all about knife sharpening with a belt sander. if you are using a belt sander to sharpen blades you must be smoking some nebraska-juana and the headaches are making you delusional!

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

a dull RAMBO wannabe knife with a hollow handle and a compass on top!

Wait, you mean, those are bad? But, they look good in the catalogs! I carry a hollow handled Rambo knife on one hip, and my favorite Frost Fantasy knife on the other hip!

[The Gaijin]

My boss in Japan was a master carpenter with a 10 year apprenticeship and another 15 years of practice.

Japanese wood working tools are the best in the world. Chisels, planes, saws.. Super hard steel at the base and a layer of softer steel over that.

Specialized grinders. Flattening stones, a dozen wet stones in three of four grades.. A chalk paste for the final finish. The tool making skills and sharpening techniques the same as samurai "Nihonto" swords.

Unbelievable craftsmanship. Guys would stop work for a 1/2 hour to sharpen a chisel or plane blade. Very rare in this modern industrialized world...

[charleskieffner]

go to lancayknives.com. click on m-9 user manual(adobe). read how to sharpen a bayonet. it may save yer life.

is a knife different from a bayonet???????

ONLY THE BLOODLET is different on the bayonet. that is why we use them on elk/deer/javelina/antelopezzz. the blade doesnt stick in the meat when we stab them TO DEATH IN OUR LOIN CLOTH'S!

[vash]

i admit, i have ruined a good blade on a whetstone. i dont have the skills. not even close.

charles, thinking about throwing good money into the AZ points system. how many points do you need to have a great chance at the exclusive AZ elk hunting club?

i used a GERBER blade on my new mexico bull elk. i had a spiderCo, ceramic sharpener on a nearby log, and had to touch up my blade 6-10 times boning out that animal. it was the single hardest thing i have ever done with a knife. i have since improved my blade status with a Knives of alaska. i made short work of two feral hogs. quick swipes thru my broadhead sharpener kept me in the game. knives and chainsaws are my favorite tools.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

My boss in Japan was a master carpenter with a 10 year apprenticeship and another 15 years of practice.

Japanese wood working tools are the best in the world. Chisels, planes, saws.. Super hard steel at the base and a layer of softer steel over that.

Specialized grinders. Flattening stones, a dozen wet stones in three of four grades.. A chalk paste for the final finish. The tool making skills and sharpening techniques the same as samurai "Nihonto" swords.

Unbelievable craftsmanship. Guys would stop work for a 1/2 hour to sharpen a chisel or plane blade. Very rare in this modern industrialized world...

ahh an evening at Blue Ribbon watching the sushi chef slicing through fish like butter, and then tending to his blade as though it were a newborn baby.... those are the evenings i miss. the japanese and their blades!! good stuff

[ramonesfreak]

charles you have brightened up my day. i do hope i never have to depend on a sharp beyonet to save my life, but, ill do as you say

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by vash

i admit, i have ruined a good blade on a whetstone. i dont have the skills. not even close.

charles, thinking about throwing good money into the AZ points system. how many points do you need to have a great chance at the exclusive AZ elk hunting club?

i used a GERBER blade on my new mexico bull elk. i had a spiderCo, ceramic sharpener on a nearby log, and had to touch up my blade 6-10 times boning out that animal. it was the single hardest thing i have ever done with a knife. i have since improved my blade status with a Knives of alaska. i made short work of two feral hogs. quick swipes thru my broadhead sharpener kept me in the game. knives and chainsaws are my favorite tools.

a) you have a better chance of winning your local lottery than drawing ANY elk/bighorn/antelopezz. all other species fairly easy. each year you gain a point towards next years draw. more points better chance. go to azgfd.com for regulations. hot tip get new messiko land owners permits. much much easier to obtain. $40,000 bucks on jicarrilla indian rez!!!!!!!

b) yep the FUN(?????) starts after you pull the trigger. the last cow i got(infamous 686 yd mcmillian .338 shot canyon to canyon wall) took us 3 days to pack that damn cow beeeatch out of wiggins canyon. hardest physical thing i have ever done with snow literally up to our waists. about killed me dead. no quad access, no truck access deep deep down in the canon. lesson learned.........how bad to you want to die getting elk out of canon. only shoot big elk where vehicles can get close to retreive animal. come alongs, 300ft mtn climbing rope,tow straps all utilized with quad pulling 1/4's up canyon wall. more fun that i will NEVER DO AGAIN!

c) ALWAYS SHOOT ELK ON FLAT GROUND!(MANTRA)

d) our drill..........get up 3am, make coffee, go poo, dress for success(full camo/orange beanie), make sandwich. get to highest elevation before dawn(wind currents), start glassing. while bored to tears..........SHARPEN KNIVES(MULTIPLE FLAVORS).

e) reason we bring box cutters is because its a PITA to sharpen knives all the time while skinning.

f) knife flavors used on juan(1) elk. stanley box cutters(spare blade cavity filled), lancay m-9 bayonet, buck 7", SOG seal pup,break down hack saw(32teeth),alaskan skinner. norton stone, (1) medium diamond stick, (1) fine diamond stick. all stuffed into my blackhawk 3 day recon bag with yummy schicken a la king MRE with lil baby tabasco sauce bottle.

g) german SS runes painted on face of each lucky(?) elk recovery specialist IN ELK BLOOD! a la johnny depps movie "DEADMAN"! this is an honest to god elk tradition for us. man you should see people(tourists) look at us when we come into the local town to deliver elk to meat butcher with blood all over us! i mean COVERED IN BLOOD ABOVE YER ELBOWS! now were talking FUN!

thats my story and im sticking to it!

nov 28th it will be a BLOOD BATH OF ELK HERE IN THE MTNS OF ARIZONA! kill kill kill! die die die! kill kill kill! blood guts and GORE IN MY TEETH!

deer hunts always fun for kids we are not so serious. elk hunts............WE GET DAMN SERIOUS! IT IS A BIG DEAL!

[ramonesfreak]

man have have overdosed on peyote?

elk recovery specialist? im gonna have to print this out and tack to my refrigerator for future reference

[911boost]

I have tried a bunch of different things. I have the Lansky, it is a PITA to use and about the only thing its good for is holding the angle correctly.

I have a very extensive and somewhat pricey knife collection as well. For my everyday carry Benchmade, I use a stone. I also find it relaxing.

Bill