I think I am gonna stop paying my mortgage

[Aurel]

My mortgage is owned by countrywide, one of those scumbag companies who created the financial mess we are in right now. It is not like I cannot afford it, and I got a 30 yr fixed a 6.675%, but heck, if the govt is going to take over, I might as well take advantage of it. I wouldn`t mind having $100k knocked out of it, that would increase my cash flow. But if I keep paying it, I`ll never get the better offer. I am just thinking...

Aurel

[Rick Lee]

If you think owing money to a bank that goes out of business or gets taken over means you're off the hook, you're in for a very rude awakening. I think a bank would be far more willing to negotiate with you than the U.S. gov't.

[Embraer]

the green font was missing...

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

If you think owing money to a bank that goes out of business or gets taken over means you're off the hook, you're in for a very rude awakening. I think a bank would be far more willing to negotiate with you than the U.S. gov't.

No, I don`t think I am off the hook, but I think many mortgages are going to be renegociated, and some losses are going to be eaten, so there may be ways to get a better deal. This is just tongue in cheek thinking anyways, my wife would never let me do that...

Aurel

[dd74]

I'm glad it's tongue-in-cheek. Because, for the life of me and what I know about banks, I can't see any reason why banks would want to negotiate with people who fault on their loans because of this crisis that is also affecting them (the banks).

Two negatives don't make a positive as far as I know.

[Aurel]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that we make efforts to be responsible financially, pay our debts and adhere to certain moral standards, only to realize that the financial entities we are dealing with are far less moral and responsible. That is a rude awakening.

Aurel

[Rick Lee]

Even in the remote case that you can get your mortgage refi'ed into a FHA or some other kind of government-created credit bucket to stave off foreclosure, I'm sure there will be unattractive strings attached. At the very least, you'd have to pay the gov't. some portion of any capital gain you made on eventually selling the house. It wouldn't be a tax (unless we get a new one of those too), but rather a fee.

[masraum]

If you've seen those commercials about "we'll help you get out of debt. You'll only pay pennies on the dollar of what you really owe." commercials. If you aren't aware. First, you have to stop paying for about a year or more so the credit companies think they won't get anything. Then they negotiate a partial payment. It's better for them to get some than none, right. But it doesn't end there. Whatever they write off gets added to your "taxable income" for the year. Ouch.

I'd hate to have my mortgage turned into taxable income.

[juan ruiz]

You are not alone, many people are been "Creative" in finding ways out of this mess.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by juan ruiz

You are not alone, many people are been "Creative" in finding ways out of this mess.

Yeah...Wall Street CEO's.

[Rot 911]

I might as well get my comments in before this gets move. It just pisses me off that we are willing to throw 700 billion dollars at companies that were more concerned with their bonuses then running their companies in a responsible manner. I don't care if they go under. I don't believe the money will all dry up if they do. It seems like you could take that money and pay off one hell of a lot of people's mortgages. Now that would stimulate the economy.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The lenders weren't the only ones that were scumbags. The borrowers, the brokers, the realtors, the appraisers and in many cases even the sellers were all party to the stupidity that's now coming home to roost. They all had their roles to play and they're all culpable to varying degrees - in addition to the bankers that bundled, "rated" and traded these mortgage-backed securities. I have very little respect for any of them and I seriously hope that there are deep and long-lasting investigations into the behavior of all of them - and that many get hit with hard jail time for fraud on top of the financial losses they're suffering. They deserve nothing less.

I honestly hope the FBI starts kicking in doors and hauling people off. I really do.

[VincentVega]

The borrowers, the brokers, the realtors, the appraisers and in many cases even the sellers were all party to the stupidity that's now coming home to roost.

Exactly right.

People will workout deals with the new mortgage owners. Some will be be legit and help people, some will help people get ahead at the expense of us all. Those of us who pay our debts responsibly are taking it on the chin.

[The Gaijin]

Some guy somewhere is laughing. He bought his first house with a sub-prime mortgage with a variable rate, but in a rising market - sold for a profit and bought another and another and another. Flipped and flipped into bigger and bigger houses.. Someone played this game and got out before the music stopped with millions. And does not owe anyone a penny.

And some poor schlub bought at the top of the market - cannot afford his newly re-adjusted mortgage - can't sell and is losing everything, including his saving and credit rating.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Some guy somewhere is laughing. He bought his first house with a sub-prime mortgage with a variable rate, but in a rising market - sold for a profit and bought another and another and another. Flipped and flipped into bigger and bigger houses.. Someone played this game and got out before the music stopped with millions. And does not owe anyone a penny.

His name is Motion.

[NICKG]

Originally Posted by Aurel

I guess the point I was trying to make is that we make efforts to be responsible financially, pay our debts and adhere to certain moral standards, only to realize that the financial entities we are dealing with are far less moral and responsible. That is a rude awakening.

Aurel

your right, this chaps my ass..we were responsible and bought a house that we could AFFORD in a bad economy, and have been making repairs to bring it up to par because we took the responsible route. NOW all the idiots who bought WAY out of their comfort zone are getting a life line? F that...where's MY bail out? where is MY cut of that? i will tell you..higher taxes! this burns me up! let the people suffer..let the banks go out...I pay my bills every month, I planned my buying..now i have to pay

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Some guy somewhere is laughing. He bought his first house with a sub-prime mortgage with a variable rate, but in a rising market - sold for a profit and bought another and another and another. Flipped and flipped into bigger and bigger houses.. Someone played this game and got out before the music stopped with millions. And does not owe anyone a penny.

And some poor schlub bought at the top of the market - cannot afford his newly re-adjusted mortgage - can't sell and is losing everything, including his saving and credit rating.

Precisely.

I don't mean to sound like I'm patting myself on the back here (I'm not), but I saw this thing for the Ponzi Scheme it was back in 2002/2003. I knew (and openly said) back then what was going to happen. It was EXACTLY like the dot-com bubble we'd seen only a few years before.

What short memories and attention spans people have to not realize it.

Honestly, my biggest regret was not having enough $$$ to make a play or two early on and cash out. It was actually my intention but we were rebuilding from a layoff in the post-9/11 recession that pretty much wiped us out and left us with bad credit and no life savings, so I just couldn't take advantage. Believe me, I'd have never stayed in longer than a year or two, but perhaps it's a blessing that I couldn't jump in. A few years later (2006/2007) when our situation was much better, I looked at the situation again but decided things had risen far too high. It was the wrong time to get in - and I was right. Had I jumped in then (and I could have), I'd be losing my shirt right now.

Oh well. No sympathy. People didn't do their homework, didn't make smart decisions and now want to cry "victim". Wrong. Your choice to get in at the end of a Ponzi Scheme is yours - not mine. Either get in at the beginning or not at all. That's the way these things work.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I honestly hope the FBI starts kicking in doors and hauling people off. I really do.

Just came across this gem yesterday. One of my former clients. He was not a big fish either, so I think this will happen more and more.

Guilty Plea Entered In Va. Loan Fraud
Case Is Latest in Federal Crackdown

By Jerry Markon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 24, 2008; B01

An Annandale man pleaded guilty yesterday to helping orchestrate a mortgage fraud scheme that used "straw buyers" to sell property across Northern Virginia,
defrauding banks and commercial lenders of more than $2.5 million, prosecutors said.

Gohar J. Mirza, 29, said in court documents that he and several co-conspirators
sold the properties in Annandale, Woodbridge and elsewhere to the buyers, who used fraudulent loan documents to obtain financing. The buyers then defaulted on the mortgages, which caused the losses to financial institutions, prosecutors said.

Mirza is the former owner and operator of E-Star Lending, and his guilty plea represents the third recent mortgage fraud conviction or sentencing in U.S. District Court in Alexandria. It comes as investigators continue to examine an upsurge in mortgage fraud nationwide triggered by the decline in the housing market.

With the FBI ramping up investigations locally through a mortgage fraud task force
begun late last year in its Washington field office, officials said there is heightened
attention to the issue. "We have seen many such cases recently, and we fully
expect to see many more," Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney in Alexandria,
said yesterday.

Mirza, who pleaded guilty to mail and wire fraud, faces as much as 20 years in prison when he is sentenced Dec. 19. He has agreed to pay full restitution to victims of his fraud. Court documents said they include Citimortgage, J.P. Morgan Chase and the Lending Tree's Home Loan Center.

The government believes the losses from the E-Star Lending scheme were between $2.5million and $7 million, court documents said, but a news release announcing Mirza's plea said only that they were "in excess of" $2.5 million. Thomas Berger, an attorney for Mirza, said he will argue that the loss is at the low end of that range, which could affect Mirza's sentence.

Court documents said the straw buyers, through fraudulently obtained loans, would purchase properties from Mirza or his associates. Frequently, the documents said, Mirza sold the property at an inflated price -- sometimes $100,000 more than he paid for it -- within a month or two of purchasing it. The straw buyer would then default, and the banks would lose out because the properties had been purchased with 100 percent financing and for more money than they were worth.

The properties purchased by the straw buyers included 12728 Dulcinea Pl. in Woodbridge, 3918 Gallows Rd. in Annandale and 6106 Backlick Rd. in Springfield, court documents said.

Walter F. Contreras, who prosecutors say was a loan officer for E-Star Lending,
has also been charged in the case and is scheduled for trial Nov. 19. Prosecutors
say he recruited straw buyers to the scheme. An attorney for Contreras did not return a phone call yesterday.

In a separate scheme, David A. Freelander, 50, of Norfolk was sentenced Friday in
federal court in Alexandria to four years in prison and ordered to pay $5.4 million
in restitution. Prosecutors said Freelander, a mortgage broker, fraudulently obtained a $3.9 million mortgage loan from Lehman Brothers Bank FSB so that a client could buy a home in Great Falls.

That followed the sentencing Sept. 5 of John A. Tsiaoushis, former owner of a group of Washington area nightclubs and restaurants. He was sentenced to almost six years in prison for a mortgage fraud scheme in which he used false documents to repeatedly sell or refinance two houses in Vienna and the Fort Hunt area of Fairfax County, pocketing more than $3.8 million.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Aurel

I guess the point I was trying to make is that we make efforts to be responsible financially, pay our debts and adhere to certain moral standards, only to realize that the financial entities we are dealing with are far less moral and responsible. That is a rude awakening.

Aurel

How about we be honest for just a minute? You can blame the financial institutions all we want if it makes you feel better but they aren't the ones defaulting on the loans.
They are in trouble because PEOPLE(borrowers) promised to pay back loans and the PEOPLE aren't keeping their promise.
I get so tired of people blaming the politicians or the lenders when the real problem is most of the people who borrowed the money are lust plain flat out irresponsible either due to ignorance, stupidity, or lack of morals.

If I were running this country (and you're glad I'm not) I'd punish these people for walking away from their loans, not bail them out. Why punish the rest of us for their mistakes?
I'd make it very difficult and PAINFUL to default on a loan. I'd punish them severely. That would result in less people defaulting and this problem wouldn't be as big.
PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY should not be just a catch phrase, it should be a value and a priority. Our "culture" tends to look for someone else to blame, always find a scapegoat. Well I'm tired of it. People need to be held accountable for their screw-ups and we need to stop blaming everyone else every chance we get.

[NICKG]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

How about we be honest for just a minute? You can blame the financial institutions all we want if it makes you feel better but they aren't the ones defaulting on the loans.
They are in trouble because PEOPLE(borrowers) promised to pay back loans and the PEOPLE aren't keeping their promise.
I get so tired of people blaming the politicians or the lenders when the real problem is most of the people who borrowed the money are lust plain flat out irresponsible either due to ignorance, stupidity, or lack of morals.

If I were running this country (and you're glad I'm not) I'd punish these people for walking away from their loans, not bail them out. Why punish the rest of us for their mistakes?
I'd make it very difficult and PAINFUL to default on a loan. I'd punish them severely. That would result in less people defaulting and this problem wouldn't be as big.
PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY should not be just a catch phrase, it should be a value and a priority. Our "culture" tends to look for someone else to blame, always find a scapegoat. Well I'm tired of it. People need to be held accountable for their screw-ups and we need to stop blaming everyone else every chance we get.

you are 100% right. we have fostered a whole generation on this lack of Personal responsibility...it makes me sick