Installing a 220V outlet
 

I want to install several 220V outlets when bringing silkscreen in-house.

What's involved in this? Building is currently all 110V.

a qualified IOEW certed commercial electrician!!!!

why???? because it only takes mille-amps to kill you!

you dont usually get a second chance with 220 !!

A commercial building is only 110v? Can't be???

If indeed that's true ...you need to contact the local electric utility. They will have to rewire first (at the transformer), then you will need an electrician ...for internal wiring.

it's a 2 story building, below me is a wholesale auto parts runner. I just remembered I do have a large HVAC (broken, with 3000 square feet, I use area space heaters for front office, propane contractor heater for workshop in winter), so I must have 220V running from somewhere. All plugs are 110 though.

I suppose I could figure out where the HVAC is running from and go from there. Is it a matter of running the correct wiring from the source? Don't mind buying the right tools to determine what's hot, what's not.

I havent done 220v but I have wired my basement. Im okay with electric but I left wiring into the panel to my dad, he's an electrician. I would recomend the same, put your outlets where you want them, run the cable to the panel and call an electrician to do the "dangerous" part. Pulling wire sucks and can take time but thats also all the more reason to do it yourself.

yer asking to get lite up lak a xmas tree! jes get a qualified electrician pay the bucks............cuz anythang YOU DO MUST BE CODED! and there is a reason.........safety!

heres a nice lil story.............a unqualified person strings electrical in building. it IS NOT TO CODE!

electrical arcs some sub fridgid night when overloaded. building burns down.

you are sued into stone age and play with toy porsches along bowry(skid road-not skid pad) along with yer grocery cart (w/racing stripes) filled w/all yer worldly possessions!

i deal w/contractors ALL DAY LONG! i wouldnt touch electrical to save my ass! knowing a little and using a volt/ohm meter is a sure way to get a heaping amount of WHOOP ASS legally or electrically!

once agin...........it only takes mille-amps to stop yer heart!

Ok then ...I agree with above post.

Call a certified electrician and sleep well at night.;)

I agree about the code part, and yes it's foolish to not pay for a professional, I just don't think it's that big of a job (turning things off, hooking things up, turning things on) but will cost thousands anyway, and it's not rocket science.

You should have 2 live legs and a ground wire coming into your service, if it's Single Phase. From either one of the legs to ground is 110V. Between the 2 legs is 220V

Check that with a Electrical Tester to verify.

This is good advice if you haven't done much electrical work. You will save quite a bit of money using this plan.

Exactly - do the rough in and have a licensed electrician make the final connections & call for inspection. Shouldn't be too expensive.

Where is the fuse box and what does it look like?

heres (2) past electrical stories..........

back in 1972, feb 14, i was talking to my aunt margot in new york city. it was her b-day. about 10 pm at night. i was around 14 yrs old. margot was my "HIP" aunt. where my mom was strict margot was cool. anyway shot the breeze with her about werk. she was the secretary to the head honcho at lockheed aeroplane corp. based at jfk intl aeropuerto. she drove a ghia. she was cool.

anyway she states to me" i'll be right back" and leaves the phone. after some time i mentioned this to my folks and we hung up and tried calling again. no answer. next morning at 5am scottsdale p. d. is at our door telling us we believe margot has died in a fire.

we hop on plane. n.y.f.d. used 12 bottles of oxygen on her to no avail.

cause of fire............electrical. both my mom and aunt were born in that house and EXACTLY 20 years to the ******* DATE.............there was another electrical fire.


now.................fast forward to 2008. back in february i was faced with a huge dilemma on 2 of my backyard outbuildings. both were termite infested/rat infested/rattlesnake infested buildings of substantial size that were 27 years old. and they needed a infusion of cash and labor like nobodys biz.

3 truckloads of crap wasted sun rotted termite food out, and 3 truckloads of lumber put back in ONE BUILDING!

other building had roof collapse from crap roof and 4" of rain. so new roof and new drywall there.

one building had already been stuccoed, other was T-111 siding that the sun had killed. so new T-111. while this "fun with wood" expedition commenced had the fun filled giggles of watching outlets ARC like a MO-FO when any power tool plugged in. as we continued on this got to be a real safety issue.

finally after pouring $2500 of concrete floor in one building, (2) 5' x 9' foot doors for bike/quad access built, i coughed up bucks for an ELECTRICIAN! a real bonifide IOEW union alaskan pipeline electrician who jus so happens to enjoy mass quanities of miller lite like meself.

after explaining my issues...........first words out of his mouth were..........."these buildings are ILLEGAL" ie. RED TAGGED/CONDEMNED/NO OCCUPANCY/NO ******* BUENO!

so............after finding exposed exterior ROMEX, crap outlets, wired wrong outlets/wired wrong lights/bare wires/sunrotted wires/rat chewed wires.............i was facing a wallet meltdown.

my solution as always...............BUY MORE BEER! hit home depot..........buy new light fixtures/new GFI's/new outlets/new switches/new ROMEX/new breakers, and install myself and have pat my ex marine corp IOEW alaskan pipeline electrician do the "HOT WIRE " stunts while i watch mega voltage arcs at night all the while its still 110 degrees out at 9pm at night gulping beers down, being the gopher/wire stringer/outlet installer etc.

thats what the hell i have been doing since february this year. all the while at werk dealing with contractors on a 37 year old flat roof 10,000 sq foot nightmare of a home amongst a million other thangs i do for a living.

dont be cheap with:

roofs
electrical
plumbing

it will bite you in the ass big time..............EVERYTIME!

A home is always 120/240V. Each side of your panel + neutral = 120V. Both sides of panel = 240V.

In a light commercial application it will often be 120/208V three phase. One leg (of 3) + neutral = 120V. Two legs = 208V. Industrial is typical 347/600V. Etc etc

But call an electrician if you don't know what you are doing.

Ian

I agree. 110/220 wiring is not hard at all (the concepts are quite simple), but ONLY after you've watched someone go through it. Heck, if you've never pulled wire, you'll quickly learn that paying someone is worth your sanity, because you will never succeed in pulling wire without some basic training.

Find a friend that knows this stuff (if he's a contractor, even better) and shadow him while he works. Ask questions, watch, take notes, and get him to let you help on some basic stuff. After that, you'll be able to wire an entire house (it really is pretty easy...)

I did my own 220v wiring because I couldn't get any of the 'union' guys to actually show up for the job.

You might as well plug the right union. It is IBEW not IOEW.

Do we see a future Darwin winner in the making?

Says the Audi owner. LOL!;)


I'm going to get some quotes.

Thom, I remember the thread where you wired in an air conditioner or something like that in your garage. Is that right?

Fuse box is in the back work room, very accessible. Bottom right 3 are bridged 50A and control the HVAC.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222701735.jpg

I did this not long ago. My Panel (200 amp) had space for more breakers. I put a breaker on each side. A red wire to one side, black to the other, white to neutral and ground to ground. I ran 130 ft. of under ground wire to the detached garage I built and wired this in to a panel there.

Just make sure the "Main" is off when doing your connections and no danger. Works well.

Thanks Bob. the main is out front, again, easy access.

Shaun

The triple gang breaker tells you it is 3 phase. Probably 120/208V. There is no room for more breakers which means a sub panel will be required. Get an electrician because this involves conduit etc.

Also, what voltage is the equipment you wish to connect? There should be specs with a voltage range. Does it say 208V - 250V or similar?

Ian

Is that three phase?

Buy a lathe and milling machine.

Hi Shaun,

But I also have a 1983 911SC, and am an architect!!!!

Though I've built plenty of houses for myself, including a 7,000 SF for my family, when it came to the 220 V for the garage and laundery and kitchen, I hired an electrician. Everyone is really correct - 220 volts is a nasty amount of voltage to be "playig" with unless you are super careful and read up on how to do it. You don't have to hire them for the whole job, but I do understand about finding one to do such a "small" job.

But let's not forget that there is a huge slow-down in the construction industry (and architecture industry), so you should be able to find a licensed electrician willing to make some money to buy his groceries.

Thanks Guys. Silkscreen Conveyor Dryers are typically 220V 1 Phase, putting out 5000 Watts or so. Same with a big air compressor, and then an industrial size clothes dryer, which are 200+.

Will also be running flash dryers, but those 110V.

It does sound more like I will need a qualified electrician. Running cable is pretty easy in the building, I've been up in the roof superstructure, doesn't seem that it would be that difficult.

Ron Richardson: Yeah? Are you gonna make it all 220?
Jack Butler: Yeah. 220... 221, whatever it takes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222705106.jpg

Shaun,
I had a guy run a 220v plug in my home about 3 years ago, all of the work came to about $250. I'll PM you his contact info in case you want to get a quote from him.

Thanks for the PM Grant, I'll give him a call later today. Much appreciated!

What??? You mean have someone just come out and connect the wires. How much will you pay for that? One, its not worth his time and people will never pay someone for 15 min. of work. Second, now he's responsible for all of the electrical work because the permit is under his / co's name. I am shock to hear that from you. I know you would not sign off or put your name on any drawings drawn by some non lic. architect or business owner for that matter. I was trying to be a nice guy once while working in some West Hollyweird condo (these were $700,000+ condos, not for the poor) The condo owner down below begged me to help him adj all of his out of wack kitchen cabinet doors. No one was dumb enough to come out to do it. Since we were there, I was thinking, what the heck. I charged him $100 and spend an hour or 2 doing it. When I got done in an hour, he refuse to pay and said it only took a little bit of my time, and that not even he made $100 an hour. So, he took $30 bucks out of his wallet and gave it to me. and Said,"I think this should be more then enough for what you have done." I return his money and wish him a nice weekend. I hate ******* cheap people. I had my men run the chipping hammer on some useless 2X4 on the floor extra early on that saturday morning and as late as possible during the rest of the week just for fun.

The building is likely to have a 480/277 3 phase system. It is easily done w/ a transformer to get the 120/208 for wall outlets etc.

If you want it done correctly, safely, and up to code, hire a professional. It takes 8000 hours and usually a state licensing exam to be a commercial electrician. It not just a union racket. The National Electric Code for 2008 is over 650 pages long.

This is not just installing a new outlet in your house. Depending on your building you could have a 480 3-phase system with 400 Amps at the service. The branch circuits alone for your wall outlets are 120V at 15-20 Amps. As was previously pointed out is only takes 20 Milliamps across your heart to kill you, nevermind the fire danger.

Breakers and fuses have to be sized, wire needs to be sized, equipment has to be correct and listed for the application to prevent fires and personnel hazards.

In short, hire a pro, prevent the possiblity of damage and injury.

Micah

Get an electrical contractor. Done. Some of the advice is bad. Installation will be better and you will not be libel for doing your own work. Everyone thinks they can do electrical, but do they do it up to code, usually not.
Your not going to get a 'union electrician' come out. Get an estimate from a contractor

Breaker box is full although both those big three phase breakers are off. If what they once supplied is no longer in service or in the building you (your electrician) could re size the breaker to the appropriate size and run new wire/ conduit.
If you are running conduit, it won't be cheap and you won't believe the price for copper these days.
600/575 is kind of a Canadian thing in North America. It is amazing how much difference you see in wire size (decrease) going from 208 to 460 and 460 to 575 VAC.
Hope it works out!

And if things don't work out, please ask your widow to inform us of your demise, so that we can use you as another recipient of the Darwin Award!

Electricity can kill. It sounds like there are enough issues with your attempte4d "project" to raise red flags. This does not sound like a simple connect wire A to panel board B.

As an architect, I'd advise you to find a friendly Porsche Club memeber who is an electrical engineer or an electrical contractor and ask their advice first. And then try to find a licensed electrician who is willing to moonlight on this.

The Economy is bad enough that they are out there, needing work, and/or needing the extra money.

Grant's recommendation Rob is coming out next Thursday to take a look.

thanks again!

Not all electricians are up to speed. I've seen my share of real bad ones. The one thing that really surprised me years ago involved a 3-phase system. The electrician wired a 220 circuit to 2 of them as that's usually how it works. Turned out that the power company in this particular state (MS) used the middle circuit for what they called a "stinger" circuit. More voltage. Yep, they fried several single phase motors until someone figured out to move the one leg over.

I've got a few more Darwin electrician stories.

Shaun, you rent? You get electrical fire, no electrical permit, no insurance coverage for the building or your stuff.

one of the main factors why I'm going with a pro. also going to look at some projects, like more light switches for the overheads...currently have 8 lights on when I only need to the vast majority of the time.

Here's the quote for the work to be done.

Total is $1225 (scope creep)

thoughts? seems pretty reasonable.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1224034250.jpg

Very reasonable. What's his hourly rate?