Porsche claims Nissan GT-R Nürburgring Times "Fudged"

[kstar]

How about this!?

Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.

How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.

Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/

[onewhippedpuppy]

If I recall correctly, the fastest times I saw for both the GT-R and GT-2 were on slicks.

[trekkor]

Maybe they should let me drive them both.
I'll get to the bottom of this.

You know, an unbiased opinion.

I own both a Nissan and a Porsche, myself.


KT

[serge944]

If I recall, the GTR was run on R-compounds. When the times first came out I saw a couple sources say this.

The Porsches are run on OE Pilot Cups. The surprise is that the 'Ring title holder (the zr1) ran on PS2s.

[kstar]

Here's the original press release which includes the basis for Porsche's dispute - see my emphasis in bold italics:

PRESS RELEASE

GT-R ACHIEVES UNDER 7:30 AT NÜRBURGRING
- GT-R among the fastest ever production road cars at the 'Ring' -

Nissan today announced that its GT-R supercar achieved a lap time at the infamous Nürburgring in Germany of seven minutes and 29 seconds. Recorded on April 16 and 17, the GT-R used was a base specification car and fitted with the standard Japanese market tyres. Driven by GT-R chief test driver Tochio Suzuki, this latest lap time beats the previous fastest time for the GT-R by nine seconds.

The previous best lap time for GT-R of 7:38, also driven by Suzuki, was one of the fastest laps achieved by a production car despite conditions being slightly damp on two corners.

"At last year's testing, we were frustrated by the conditions at the Nürburgring, always believing that the GT-R could go under seven minutes 30 seconds," said Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer for GT-R. "Below seven minutes 30 seconds, the GT-R proves it is among the fastest mass-production cars in the world. We set out to build a multi-performance supercar accessible to anyone, anytime and anywhere – I believe the GT-R has delivered that promise."

Deliveries of the all-new GT-R began in Japan in December 2007. Sales in the US and Canada start in July and extend to Europe and other markets over the next 12 months.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/01/gt-r-drops-ring-time-down-to-7-29/

[RWebb]

well, ok

but how about beating their a$$!

[Bill Douglas]

Settle it once and for all. A fist fight in the car park.

[jorian]

There's no disputing that the GT-R wins in the ugly department.

[cstreit]

There was also some questions about the measuring point they used as well as standing vs. flying starts at one point I believe...

[DavidB911]

The fanbois are defending the GTR like its their mother. I could care less if the GTR is faster. Porsches are classy and set the bar while Nissan, not so much.

[Por_sha911]

We need The Stig to settle this once and for all.

[porsche4life]

I agree Joe. This would make for a great TG episode.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

We need The Stig to settle this once and for all.

He already did. The GT-R demolishes everything this side of an Enzo

[89911]

So let me get this right. If you throw on some different tires, you can beat a car that cost $100K more. Yeah, I can see why Porsche is mad

[911teo]

Originally Posted by 89911

So let me get this right. If you throw on some different tires, you can beat a car that cost $100K more. Yeah, I can see why Porsche is mad

Actually you'd be surprised at how much tyres can affect the times....

There is a video out there of Chris Harris lapping Silverstone in a C63 AMG with some performance tyres (no-R compound but maxx summer performance). Then he swaps them for a different brand and laps 3.4 seconds quicker.

Now Silverstone is a 2m30s lap. The Ring is nearly 4 times as long... That's 15 seconds right there....

And imagine if you put on slicks instead of road tyres...

[JeremyD]

Being four wheel drive - tires probably have an even greater effect. I've said this before - everybody is using the "ring" as a performance indicator. 7.XX times means it a better performance car. Blah Blah Blah

All these manufacturers go on the ring - then do a press release on their best time. No independent group - not the same driver, tires, etc. Too much room for error - and creative manipulation. (and it's not like Porsche has ever manipulated the rules to their advantage!)

[304065]

Porsche's engineers know every corner and surface of the ring. They probably ran the time against their lap simulators, figured out the max G (lat and lon) required to achieve it and then ran that against experimental data from the GTR on the skidpad and dragstrip with stock tires. If you read their claim very carefully it seems like that's what they did.

[JeremyD]

My guess is that Porsche already knows what the answer is - they just want to hear it from Nissan...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by john_cramer

Porsche's engineers know every corner and surface of the ring. They probably ran the time against their lap simulators, figured out the max G (lat and lon) required to achieve it and then ran that against experimental data from the GTR on the skidpad and dragstrip with stock tires. If you read their claim very carefully it seems like that's what they did.

They're German, would you expect anything less?

[nostatic]

I saw a GTR on the road here the other day. I was amazed at how...um...er...did I see something?

It is ugly and bland at the same time if that is possible. Only some cartoonish accents hint at the performance. Almost zero aesthetic. More forgettable in person than in pictures...a twin-bagger at best.

imho fugly is fine at the track. For a street car? What's the point...if you can't have an aesthetic then forget it.