Assault rifle ed 101

[artplumber]

OK,
So I'm reading all the threads about buying this and that weapon.

1. What's the proposed legislation actually define assault weapon? and the grandfathering allowed?

2. Some examples of what will be disallowed?

I was interested in owning something that might be considered "assault" at some point, but was more interested in something with higher than base model accuracy - I guess maybe match grade or some such. Names I recall are M14 or FN FAL. Are there others that are comparable? How much time do I have? The legislation can't be made retroactive, right? Where to look? I don't have the time to run to a gun show (they're likely to be 1.5-3 hours one way away from me). I don't own any weapon (other than air rifles), and have fired handguns (quite some time ago). I don't think I'd get overwhelmed with taking anything down for cleaning etc, but super high maintenance is not a "plus" characteristic. Maybe, someday I might reload, but no time soon.....

Fire away Gridley.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by artplumber

1. What's the proposed legislation actually define assault weapon? and the grandfathering allowed?

Nothing is actually proposed yet, execept campaign talk. It is a plank in the Democratic Party platform, to get the 1994 Assualt weapon ban re-instated.

Grandfathering will be whatever the new laws say. The old law said anything you own pre-ban is OK. If you sell something that is pre-ban, that is OK. Anything made after the BAN, must conform.

Originally Posted by artplumber

2. Some examples of what will be disallowed?

Magazines over 10 rounds was the only real change. Everything else was cosmetic. Pistol grips, flash hiders, bayonet lugs, threaded barrels. You could have something like one, but not two.

Originally Posted by artplumber

I was interested in owning something that might be considered "assault" at some point, but was more interested in something with higher than base model accuracy - I guess maybe match grade or some such. Names I recall are M14 or FN FAL. Are there others that are comparable? How much time do I have? The legislation can't be made retroactive, right? Where to look? I don't have the time to run to a gun show (they're likely to be 1.5-3 hours one way away from me). I don't own any weapon (other than air rifles), and have fired handguns (quite some time ago). I don't think I'd get overwhelmed with taking anything down for cleaning etc, but super high maintenance is not a "plus" characteristic. Maybe, someday I might reload, but no time soon.....

Fire away Gridley.

Actually, a standard M1A (Civilian M14) wasn't considered an assault weapon. An M1 was also not considered. A civilian M16 (AR-15) with most of the regular cosmetic touches would.

Get a Match grade M1A with a Match trigger, and you'll have something fun. Buy magazines.

[artplumber]

Since the FN FAL is no longer produced (I think) are there dependable copies of the action? I've seen at least one manufacturer with "match" barrels. Would that kind of arm fall into the ban?

I've heard of gunbroker and shootersxhange. Any others? What prices should I expect to pay (or where to look).

[on2wheels52]

"Actually, a standard M1A (Civilian M14) wasn't considered an assault weapon."
But had they been foreign made they would have had to be re-configured. The ones produced during the 'ban' (AR15's also) did not have a bayonet lug or threaded barrell end.

"An M1 was also not considered."
It got a 'bye' because of its fixed magazine (and only 8 rds) and no threaded barrell. Even M1carbines were ok because of the barrell.
Jim

[azasadny]

I have an AR15 I bought this spring and I love it! I'm buying reloading supplies now so I can make my own ammo. I bought extra magazines, but I'll buy more next weekend. Great gun to shoot, we shot several of them last weekend and had a good time at the range.

[competentone]

1 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all semi-automatic firearms as Class 3 weapons. (We saw this done with the Striker and USAS-12 shotguns a few years ago.) Current owners will be able to get the required tax stamp for no cost during the grace period for registration. Subsequent transfers will be under the rules similar to current Class 3 transfers. There will probably be no new tax stamps issued for newly manufactured semi-autos (just like the 1986 ban on full-auto tax stamps).

2 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all loaded ammunition, primers and smokeless powder as "explosives." Licenses will be required for ownership and transfer of any ammunition or components. (There will be court challenges, but scientific arguments that smokeless powder is not an explosive will be ineffective. Note that the Supreme Court recently upheld that carbon dioxide is a "pollutant" subject to EPA regulation.)

Punishment for violation of the new laws will be similar to current punishments for violating laws on Class 3 weapons.

A lot of people will not follow the new laws and will not register their semi-auto firearms. This will give the government tremendous arrest powers -- to be used anytime they want it -- against those opposed to the establishment of a socialist government in this country.

There is a direct correlation between those who own firearms -- particularly semi-autos -- and those who are opposed to a socialist government. Those seeking world-wide socialism cannot stamp out the biggest population opposed to them (in the U.S.) by directly targeting the "political opinion," but by passing firearm laws which will not be followed -- and creating an instant new class of "criminals" -- they can have the power to destroy their political opponents any time they choose to send out their arrest squads.

We are living in dangerous times.

Edit: In noting the past "reclassification" of firearms to Class 3 status, I should point out that the Striker shotgun was actually a revolver, not even a semi-auto. These reclassifications were done as "test balloons" to learn what the opposition would be to the coming reclassification of other firearms (mostly semi-auto rifles and pistols).

[futuresoptions]

I am planning on purchasing another M1A (M14).. The one I have now is a supermatch model with stainless steel barrel and black composite stock. The new M1A will be a blued national match with a JAE 100 stock from West Texas Armory shown below...

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by competentone

1 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all semi-automatic firearms as Class 3 weapons. (We saw this done with the Striker and USAS-12 shotguns a few years ago.) Current owners will be able to get the required tax stamp for no cost during the grace period for registration. Subsequent transfers will be under the rules similar to current Class 3 transfers. There will probably be no new tax stamps issued for newly manufactured semi-autos (just like the 1986 ban on full-auto tax stamps).

2 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all loaded ammunition, primers and smokeless powder as "explosives." Licenses will be required for ownership and transfer of any ammunition or components. (There will be court challenges, but scientific arguments that smokeless powder is not an explosive will be ineffective. Note that the Supreme Court recently upheld that carbon dioxide is a "pollutant" subject to EPA regulation.)

Punishment for violation of the new laws will be similar to current punishments for violating laws on Class 3 weapons.

A lot of people will not follow the new laws and will not register their semi-auto firearms. This will give the government tremendous arrest powers -- to be used anytime they want it -- against those opposed to the establishment of a socialist government in this country.

There is a direct correlation between those who own firearms -- particularly semi-autos -- and those who are opposed to a socialist government. Those seeking world-wide socialism cannot stamp out the biggest population opposed to them (in the U.S.) by directly targeting the "political opinion," but by passing firearm laws which will not be followed -- and creating an instant new class of "criminals" -- they can have the power to destroy their political opponents any time they choose to send out their arrest squads.

We are living in dangerous times.

Edit: In noting the past "reclassification" of firearms to Class 3 status, I should point out that the Striker shotgun was actually a revolver, not even a semi-auto. These reclassifications were done as "test balloons" to learn what the opposition would be to the coming reclassification of other firearms (mostly semi-auto rifles and pistols).

I wish I could say you're just being paranoid here...but in this case, I'm afraid they ARE out to get us. Obama's record on the 2nd amendment is sparse but clear...he wants to do away with it.

[legion]

Originally Posted by competentone

1 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all semi-automatic firearms as Class 3 weapons. (We saw this done with the Striker and USAS-12 shotguns a few years ago.) Current owners will be able to get the required tax stamp for no cost during the grace period for registration. Subsequent transfers will be under the rules similar to current Class 3 transfers. There will probably be no new tax stamps issued for newly manufactured semi-autos (just like the 1986 ban on full-auto tax stamps).

2 -- Expect a "reclassification" of all loaded ammunition, primers and smokeless powder as "explosives." Licenses will be required for ownership and transfer of any ammunition or components. (There will be court challenges, but scientific arguments that smokeless powder is not an explosive will be ineffective. Note that the Supreme Court recently upheld that carbon dioxide is a "pollutant" subject to EPA regulation.)

Punishment for violation of the new laws will be similar to current punishments for violating laws on Class 3 weapons.

A lot of people will not follow the new laws and will not register their semi-auto firearms. This will give the government tremendous arrest powers -- to be used anytime they want it -- against those opposed to the establishment of a socialist government in this country.

There is a direct correlation between those who own firearms -- particularly semi-autos -- and those who are opposed to a socialist government. Those seeking world-wide socialism cannot stamp out the biggest population opposed to them (in the U.S.) by directly targeting the "political opinion," but by passing firearm laws which will not be followed -- and creating an instant new class of "criminals" -- they can have the power to destroy their political opponents any time they choose to send out their arrest squads.

We are living in dangerous times.

Edit: In noting the past "reclassification" of firearms to Class 3 status, I should point out that the Striker shotgun was actually a revolver, not even a semi-auto. These reclassifications were done as "test balloons" to learn what the opposition would be to the coming reclassification of other firearms (mostly semi-auto rifles and pistols).

This reclassification strategy has been taken straight out of the playbook for the "War on Drugs".

Considering that I can't buy cold medicine any longer without a drivers license, I wonder what will happen when I want to buy ammunition...

[azasadny]

Have you tried purchasing primers, powder or bullets lately? I have... they are "Out of stock" everywhere...

[scottmandue]

Are you in Calif. ?

If so calguns.net has a for sale form and there is usually a few rifles available.

[Taz's Master]

I could be wrong, but I think that while Obama may well want to restrict gun ownership, Congress is aware of just how toxic 2nd Amendment infringement is. Gun contol measures like are listed here would result in a Republican majority in Congress in very short order. Ideology is all well and good when talking in abstracts, but when reelection is on the line, there aren't many American politicians willing to fall on their sword for gun control.

But on the other hand Americans (our politicians included) are bad at history.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Are you in Calif. ?

If so calguns.net has a for sale form and there is usually a few rifles available.

Yah, currently in Kali. I'll take a look at that site.

Any others in this caliber I should be looking at?

Art, my understanding of the 5.56 is that it really doesn't have much energy down range.

[Az911]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

I could be wrong, but I think that while Obama may well want to restrict gun ownership, Congress is aware of just how toxic 2nd Amendment infringement is. Gun contol measures like are listed here would result in a Republican majority in Congress in very short order. Ideology is all well and good when talking in abstracts, but when reelection is on the line, there aren't many American politicians willing to fall on their sword for gun control.

But on the other hand Americans (our politicians included) are bad at history.

Did you miss the AWB of the 90s? Pointless gun laws have been passed before what makes you think they wouldn't be passed again?

[id10t]

Being in Cali really impacts your choices. You can get Cali legal FALs, ARs, etc. Big thing is either a fixed mag (I'd avoid that) or the mag release must use a tool to function, like a bullet or screwdriver.

That said, you can sorta get new FALs. The FN reps on fnforums.net recommend DSA as the best new FAL money can buy. There are other receiver makers - DSA, DCI (defunct, but good stuff), Entreprise, Century. Both Entreprise and Century have had quality issues. Avoid Hesse like the plague. Olympic and Williams both made aluminum receivers, but they tend to go kaboom.

Shop I help with auctions, etc. just got a new Century based L1A1 (inch pattern fal, what the brits, etc. issue) in. Looks like a good build to me, we'll be posting it on gunbroker sometime next week...

[Taz's Master]

AZ911, there was a price paid for the AWB. One that (I would hope) would be exacted should we see a repeat of that legislation. Congress would ignore the NRA at its own peril. I do not believe for a second that legislators would not take advantage of an opportunity to restrict our freedoms (especially those laid out in the 2nd Amendment). I also believe that voters need to be vigilant in protecting those rights. But I do not believe that Obama's desires have the sway over Congresspersons that the threat of unemployment does. If Obama intends to use Congress to achieve his agenda, it would seem to me to be very unwise to target firearms.

I could certainly be wrong (I often am), and I am not by any means trying to mitigate the threat government presents to liberties of American citizens. As individuals we must cling tenaciously to the freedom we still have, but I personally don't see an immediate threat to the Constitution right now.

[legion]

That's the genius of the "reclassification" scheme.

It doesn't require Congressional approval! At worst it requires an executive order to the BATFE. But what federal agency turns down broader powers and (most likely) a larger budget? Nope, whomever Obama appoints to run the BATFE will know what he is expected to do.

[Taz's Master]

As I said, I'm often wrong. If a President can by executive order limit our right to bear arms (by limiting access to ammunition) then this does indeed raise my level of concern.

[legion]

Come to think of it, OSHA did try to reclassify ammunition as an explosive:

http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=BP070207.cfm

And I suspect it didn't go anywhere because of the current administration.

[artplumber]

Not really what I was looking for, but a GSG5 gen II with some mags for $650 good? (maybe a SWAT wannabe moment)