Ever try and shoot a groundhog? It is often about distance beyond the effective range of a 22LR.

But you're right.

That's why I bought a stainless 10/22 deluxe sporter at Wal-Mart on Sunday. For $239 you can't beat it and I can buy a boxcar load of ammo for less than the gun costs. $239 is what 1000 rds. of .223 runs me.

unbunch your panties. we're talking hypothetically here.

Ultimately this discussion is nonsense. At the end of the day, a single shot .22 or an AR-15 can both kill a person dead. So can a baseball bat, a pipe or a kitchen knife. If the new administration or any of you don't care for my choice of weapons or hobbies, all I can say is... tough crap. ;)

55 grain .223 is more like $400 per 1000 today. It's sold out everywhere below that price-- at least in Dallas Texas at the Gun Show last weekend 62 grain was going for $620 per 1000.

I have a 10/22 as well, and three other 22LR capable rifles, a Remington 597, a Marlin 39A and a Winchester Model 52.

I shot the 597 today, maybe 200 rounds on my little range. I was shooting targets, not groundhogs. Each have their place.

With the exception of the political BS some here can't help but spew, this is a pretty cool thread. Maybe some of you guys can help it stay that way. :)

Ironic how the folks who beotch and moan about guns the most are the ones who live in the urban areas where owning guns would make the most sense in regards to SHTF. Fortunately I live in a red county.... not much chance of riots breaking out where I live.;)

I own a gun. Why don't you hate on PARF, Tim? It was made for guys like you. :)

No, by the time I notice them, there's already a laser point on my forehead, and I know that drawing at that point would be suicide. I'm DAMNED good at talking down an angry, armed groundhog though!


:p

I have the right to hate whoever I want, but I changed my sig just for you. The fact that this thread has the "assault" rifle term in it means that it is going to bring up a discussion that has political roots. One party is for banning these weapons, one is not. Several here have stated that one of their reasons for owning one of these is because there is a very good chance that they will be banned again in the near future. IOW, this thread probably should have been posted in PARF to begin with if the original poster wants honest answers to his questions without offending the more sensitive members here in the G rated forum.

I think you need to clean your glasses. I read the OP as asking why other accumulate them, when he himself found them to be a not particularly useful gun. There was some mind, NEUTRAL talk about government restrictions. No one was pushing the "assault" agenda, and no one was taking political sides...

If you absolutely believe this thread needs politics in it, then lets ask the mods to move it. PARF was created for a purpose, and it's been a breath of fresh air in the main OT forum.

Houston, we have a problem:cool:

I have never asked the mods for anything and don't really care where this thread is located.

Sorry guys...didn't mean to make an offhand reference to "assault" rifles in the title to generate a political element. While I don't think responses such as second amendment rights/government bans/etc are overly political, if it degenerates into a heated debate on politics I understand moving it to PARF.

I wasn't seeking responses to attack why we own such weapons or make a value judgment...just interested in your reasons.

Speaking of varmint guns, I've had a blast with a 22-250 Remington 700...it is hell on crows and coyotes.

I stand corrected...it has a bipod and is long barrelled. Called up the buddy who got them and he thought he paid $90/each. Sold me mine for $100. It would have been around '91 or so.

Gun discussions are among the funnest ones we have in PPOT. I would hate to see them shfted to BARF, excuse me PARF. I think that as long as we don't bring specific politicians and political parties names into it, this is no more "political" than discussing a GM bailout.

My favorite groundhog rifle is, in fact, a high velocity .22 caliber center fire. The .22 rimfire is all well and good up close, but one really needs a .223 class weapon, or better, to really reach out and touch them.

Time was when the AR15 simply was not accurate enough for serious varmint or target work. Used to be one had nary a prayer in a highpower match with one; whereas today, one has nary a prayer with anything else. They are as accurate as any bolt gun, and the reduced recoil afforded by the gas system is a big advantage in timed and rapid fire stages.

For me, though, there is no timed or rapid fire stage to be fired when out after varmints. In light of that, a bolt gun or single shot suits me fine. My current varmint gun is a Ruger #1, a single shot, in .220 Swift.

The additional velocity and bullet weight I'm able to employ with this round effectively doubles its range over the .223. My favorite load launches the 60 grain Hornady V Max at just a click over 3800 fps. The better ballistic coefficient of the 60 grain over the more commonly used 50 and 55 grain bullets is a huge advantage in the wind, and the velocity makes up for a lot of error in range estimation.

This performance comes at a price. It is wholey unnattainable in a gas operated semi automatic. Gas port pressure would be too high with any suitable powder. The most prohibitive aspect of it, however, is throat errosion. Go rapid or timed fire with the .220 Swift and the throat will be gone before the first magazine is empty - it is that destructive if not treated properly. "Properly" is easily done with the relaxed shooting pace inherent in the single shot. It's proven to be a great combination for me, and pretty much takes care of my small bore/high velocity needs.

Dueller's original questions:

I've only shot a couple of rounds from an AK-47, and I've never tried an AR-15. I'm not sure I care to own one of these types of rifles right now, but maybe one of these days. :) I own a semi-auto pistol and my wife and I go to the range pretty regularly. I'm not as comfortable shooting a rifle, and home defense (urban condo) for me seems more readily managed with a pistol. I never have to worry about Zombies, and I heard they generally favor politicians over us regular folks. That's right, isn't it? :eek:

I own one (well, two) for a few reasons. One is they are fun and they are reliable. A second, as someone else pointed out, is that while I have the right to, there are members of our government who think that I shouldn't. Of course, when I got mine ammo was cheap and plentiful, fortunately, I have "some" saved up... but not a lot.

FWIW I skipped the varmint caliber AR15 - I'm not planning on doing suppressive fire, I need to be able to take one shot and knock something down permament like, and the 5.56/223 won't do it.

I had an AK, bought it for investment purposes and sold it last month to buy a nice over/under 20ga. that I'd been wanting for a while. Did better for me than most of my stock picks over the years.

Still have a SKS, a nice unissued Yugo. Not sure how long I'm going to keep it, maybe I can get enough from it to get a nice single shot or bolt gun in the 7.62x39 caliber.

The one I never plan on selling though (unless I'm trading it towards a better one) is my FAL. Powerful round (308/7.62x51), reliable, accurate. It is actually my deer/pig gun, should I ever go hunting. In fact, I think the round can take anything in North America, and I wouldn't feel under gunned usign it as bear defense (w/ proper ammo) should I go fishing in Alaska, etc.

I'm one of those bleeding heart liberals, but I've shot some AR-15's and a Mini-14. They were really cool, especially the Wilson Combat AR-15!

It's too bad many liberals don't see these guns for what they are: varmit and plinking guns. If I really wanted to defend myself, I'd use something bigger than a .223 like a shot gun or an AR-10 :D

This reminds me of a good Onion story: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28181

The reason? Because shooting prairie dogs at 500+ yards is fun.

Perfect for the zombies - the Area Denial Weapon System (ADWS).

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Or if you can take this off the ship and mount it on your roof over the front door. Goalkeeper.

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I do because I want to kill, kill, kill with my spoons. Ya see the one on the far right, well that is the one I'll stick right down your throat baby and it hurts...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1226451159.jpg

I don't own any guns but I'd love to shoot some of those fully automatic deals. I'm in Las Vegas Dec 1-4 for a conference so maybe that's my opportunity ;)

I could probably fit either one of these on my terrace. :)

Bring your checkbook. That kind of fun does not come cheap. Aside from the gun rental and range time, you're paying full retail for a lot of ammo that will go very quickly. But it is a lot of fun and nothing at all like the movies.

Last fully automatic machine gun I fired was a Browning .30 cal. on a tripod. Went thru about 3,000 rounds. Circa 1965. Ft Benning, Ga. I was 9 y.o. Dad was an instructor at the Infantry school.

Quite a chub.

Our local range offers a deal to shoot a full auto Uzi, 300 rounds, $300. Not a bad profit margin.

My range, it's $10 to rent the Uzi, and whatever the cost of ammo.

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Gawd, that's outrageous. I'd feel less robbed if they pointed the Uzi at me while I paid them.

I have a varmit AR, and I have used it on p-dogs. My wife enjoys shooting it as well as it doesn't kick much. I am amazed at its accuracy.

I am in the process of building my serious varmit gun. It is based on the Savage/Stevens sa chambered for the .22-250. I just got the stock after waiting forever it seemed like, and will be putting my Douglas XX barrel on it this weekend. The only thing I have left to purchase is the scope, and I have been going back and forth of that for a long time. I have a cheaper Muller on my AR, and have been very pleased with it, sooo... I just need to decide how much $$ I want to spend.

Now with that being said, if it does look like a ban is coming, I plan on picking up a DPMS AR variant in .308, or a Springfield Socom II in .308.

Why, cause I can, and I do enjoy shooting.

Of course, if need be, I sold them all. Yep just sold them sir, you can search my house but they are gone.

Paul he is out there..waiting for you.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1226457882.jpg

You will love the .22-250. It has noticably more reach than the .223. So what twist is the Douglas barrel? I went with a 12" twist in my .220 Swift (Lilja barrel, 28" stainless) and have found it will stabilize 60 grain bullets just fine. 60 grains is about as heavy as the traditional "varmint" bullets go, and seems like a great bullet weight in the bigger .22's. The heavier bullets are all intended as match bullets anyway, and will not provide the explosive expansion we are looking for in varmint shooting. Anyway, sounds like a great rifle. Savage is definitely leading the way in bolt guns these days. Who'da thunk?

location: winona,az. east of flagstaff, north of I-40

target: GINORMOUS PRAIRE DOG VILLIAGE

method of DEEEEE-STRUCTION: McMILLIAN WINCHESTER MODEL 70 .338 26" barrel.

McMILLIAN M40A-1 REMINGTON MODEL 700 24" barrel in .308

FnFAL

HK-91 with QD SCOPE/BIPOD 1200 meter iron sites.

various other weapons im too lazy to write.

time: from dawn to dark

landowner: rancher his exact quote: "KILL THEM ALL EVERYLAST JUAN OF THEM!"

modus operendi: drive out to killing field w/radios, mark off 100-1200 meters/yards. come back to pick em up truck. load mags. shoot until you cant stand up.

happy meter:PEGGED!!!

cost: a hell of alot but lasts longer than sex.

if you have never experienced this you are missing out BIG TIME! nothing better than honing long range skills on something that small and that far away. you become a HERO to the rancher, to the point he brought us out a 12 pack(jes what we needed!). hold ma beer and watch THIS!

nothing better than VAPORIZING PRAIRE DOGS! DEATH FROM AFAR!

.308's and .300 mags and .338 mags are truly evil to praire dogs.

.22's for the kids when they were young for the really stoopid/retarded praire dogs close in to us. give em a 50 round clip, place on bipod, and watching them, having more fun than anything we had ever given them for xmas EVER!

My first prairie dog trip over to my buddies' spot in Montana (I'm sworn to secrecy on its location...) I asked him how much ammo I would need. We were going to shoot for two days, so I figured a few hundred rounds would do it. They told me to bring a minimum of 500 rounds. Per rifle. Oh, and bring at least five rifles. I thought they were shytin' me, but I brought pretty close to what they said to bring anyway.

My battery included a 10/22, a Remington 700 varmint weight in .223, my #1 in .220 Swift, a sporter weight M70 in .30-'06, and a '74 Sharps in .45-100. I had just about 2,000 rounds of ammo between them. I ran out halfway through the second day. Un-flippin'-believable. And, when we were finished, there was no visible impact on the herd - there were apparently just as many prairie pooches as when we had started, inspite of killing several thousand between the three of us. It was like they were breeding faster than we could shoot them.

I did learn one of the most valuable traits of the .223 on that trip - its lack of recoil. I got up the second day quite honestly not all that ready to shoot. In spite of a PAST strap-on recoil pad, several hundred .45-100's and .30-'06's had taken their toll the day before. On the second day, the recoil of my .220 Swift was even a bit much. Noticably more than the .223. And here I thought I would never use ".220 Swift" and "recoil" in the same sentence.

I guess the gas opperated semi autos would be even better for long days in the dog towns. I've made less than half a dozen trips to shoot prarie dogs, though, so I'm not sure I could justify a dedicated "dog gun". Maybe if I ever got into this more, I would finally start to seriously consider some kind of AR based rifle.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1226506127.jpg

Must've been Zombie prarie doggies.

im sure many are not blessed by a world class shooting range right in our backyard 10-15min away. but as with anything that is common the novelty wears off. ie. punching paper at 200yds is pretty damn blase unless its a new rifle and yer sighting it in. used to be you could go over to silohuette(sp) range and pop metal push over targets with noone around unless busy day. pigs deer elk varmints wabbits yotes(coyotes) sheep etc. hell of a lot of fun. until some clowns went over with belted magnums and tore hell outta the place and screwed it up for everyjuan. now its got to be a group ie. phx varmint callers etc. and you sign in and leave deposit. not enough manpower due to budget cuts to man safely all the ranges. samo with 1000 meter range now its got to be a group ie. az pistol rifle assoc.(ex member-got bored-maybe i'll join again) to shoot 1000meter targets.

sooooooooooooooo..........we contacted some of our "BIG 10" friends who have nailed all "10" BIG GAME SPECIES here and they directed us to winona,az.(mentioned) as we got drawn in unit 7 and 7west(kendrick mtn) west of flag, juan year, we was scouting and came upon another FIELD OF DREAMS by red mtn(on the unit 7w map) and found another "PRAIRE DAWG UTOPIA"!

since we were scouting deer from a nice hilltop with old fire watch tower we watched elk roam/antelopezzz roam and various other critters. noticed a bunch of critters and uneven ground and started to foam at the mouth. yep sho nough dawggie empire builders doing their dawggie thang.

well as the day wore on and our eyeballs not seeing juan damn deerski(mulies), we finally threw in the towel and said "FUCH IT" !

time fer "DAWGGIE DEATH FROM AFAR"!

since we had docter 15 x 80 binos and 2 spotting scopes, spotting them was childs play.

once again lil innocent praire dawg bodies being ripped apart/shredded/flung/splintered/mutilated/wasted etc. !

both of had brought on porpoise, a ammo can of .308's praying we could have as much fun as "winona" praire dawg village.

one guy spotting and correcting yer shots and other guy reeking HAVOC on poor defenseless creatures.

LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL!

gawd did we have fun..............spendy yes. but it pegged the FUN METER x 100 and after quite a few rounds both of us went from pretty good shots to damn good devastating shots.

practice practice practice!

punching paper has its porpoise, but paper dont MOVE! deer-skis, elch(elk),antelopezzz,wabbits,coyotes,badgers,mtn kitties, bobby kitties ALL MOVE! LIKE REAL FAST! and praire dawwggies MOVE DAMN FAST!

we both remarked how a BELT FED SEMI AUTO ANY CALIBER WOULD HAVE MADE OUR DAY IF THE BELTS WERE ABOUT A MILE LONG!

so.....if a guy wanted to buy a bolt action for plinking and maybe some varmint shooting on occassion would a .223 Tikka T3 be a good choice?

considering cost and availability of ammo here.

and what sort of scope would one slap on the top of such a firearm?