Lawyers vs. Realtors

126coupe · 126coupe's Garage

No comparison. I need lawyers in my business (real estate dev and mgmt) I am not a huge fan of lawyers, but I need them often, more than not they are pretty bright educated people.
They attend college for 4-5 years, then 3 years of law school, then they are still not a lawyer, they have to pass the bar which gets more difficult every year.
Realtors on the other hand can be a high school dropout, study for the license and be a realtor in 30 days.

I had my RE license years ago, passed the test the first time, piece of cake.
My daughter is graduating college in the spring and plans on going to law school.
She just took the LSAT, very difficult.
My point is you cannot compare an Attorney to a Realtor.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I agree. Though I have run into a few lawyers who really made me wonder how they made it through law school, let alone run a successful practice. And I have run into a few realtors who are as bright and professional as any top notch lawyer. Still, at the end of the day, when you need a lawyer, there is no substitute. You can live without a realtor. It might cost you more in the end, but you have less of a chance of ending up bankrupt or in jail than by trying to skip the lawyer.

the · 12-09-2008, 07:49 AM

The only problem with that analysis is that yes, there are far lower barriers to entry for a real estate agent.

But, what they do is also far simpler, with much less at stake. Essentially, either the house gets bought and sold, or it doesn't.

With law, there are many simple cases, slip and fall stuff, little contract, car accidents, etc.

But there are also much larger cases, where people's livelihood are on the line, their life savings, their business, etc.

With lawyers, there are really 2 or 3 different "classes." You have a top school/top firm class, and these are going to for the most part be very competent. They could not survive at a top firm if they didn't keep getting results for clients in relatively complicated cases.

You have a second class of competent, mediocre law school, mediocre competence attorneys. These are people who are never going to be lead counsel in a GM bankruptcy, but they will competently handle your dispute with your neighbor, your landlord or someone who owes you money.

The third class are the ones who went to undergraduate schools with no admissions requirements, a law school with little or no admission requirements, and have essentially no credentials, background, experience or ability in any large or legally complicated matter.

There are barriers to entry to becoming a "lawyer," but the barriers differ greatly depending on where you want to be slotted. Class 1 has significant barriers. Only a small percentage have the credentials to even get in the door at even a top 50 national firm. Class 3, the only barrier is really time. You can just go to an undergraduate school that has no real admission requirements, then to an unaccredited, "for profit" law school that also has no real admission requirements. You do have to pass the bar, but in most states that is not too difficult, and even in the harder states, you just keep taking it over and over until you pass.

In my experience and opinion, I'd put 5% of lawyers in to class 1, 45% into 2, and 50% into 3.

Dottore · 12-09-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the

In my experience and opinion, I'd put 5% of lawyers in to class 1, 45% into 2, and 50% into 3.

I believe you could break down every job/profession this way. From checkout girl to barista to nuclear scientist etc.

It reflects personal excellence, ambition, training, intelligence etc. In any given job a small percentage are truly impressive, and a larger percentage is truly appalling at what they do. The large undistributed middle is average. That's just the way it is.

pwd72s · 12-09-2008, 08:44 AM

A lawyer I like here? A contract lawyer...he told me flat out..."I don't go to court. I write contracts so there is no need to go to court."

Reminds me...better make an appointment with him soon. Need to tune up a will...

Porsche_monkey · 12-09-2008, 08:55 AM

Here's the test:

What is brown and black and looks good on a lawyer? A doberman.

What's the difference between pigs and lawyers? Pigs don't act like lawyers when they're drunk.

Now, substitute 'real estate agent' for 'lawyer'. Not the same, is it?

onewhippedpuppy · 12-09-2008, 09:16 AM

That's a tough one. Each can be sleazy in a different way. The realtor can lie and cheat to sell you a moneypit. The lawyer can lie and cheat to take away all of your money. I say advantage lawyer.

Dueller · 12-09-2008, 09:24 AM

What's the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

One's a bottom feeding scavenging scumsucker...the other one is a fish.

KFC911 · 12-09-2008, 09:27 AM

....I bet you've got a bunch of 'em!

legion · 12-09-2008, 09:28 AM

In this country, we have given lawyers, as a class of people, the right to enact taxes for their personal benefit on all of society. I know it varies by product/service, but most things have a liability component built in to their price. Let me give you a simple representative example: company XXXX get sued for having a product that might break early, they are sued and ordered to pay out X dollars to the "class" that represents everyone who bought the product. The law firm takes 45% of the settlement as its fee. People in the class are required to submit a claim to receive compensation. Most don't bother. After X many years, the law firm gets to keep the balance of the money set aside for the settlement. Meanwhile, company XXXX had to raise it's prices to compensate for the settlement. Every future consumer on their products now has to pay a hidden tax that through the legal process mostly ends up personally benefitting the lawyers who sued the company. Sounds like a real incentive to go hunting for people to sue, doesn't it?

Dueller · 12-09-2008, 09:42 AM

Yeah, Legion...I'm wid ya.

Like those lawyers that sued Phillip Morris and RJR on behalf of the states who paid out billions of dollars in Medicaid for smoking related illness. Yep those lawyers got rich. And the states got billions of dollars put back into their treasuries. And DAMN them TO HELL....price of smokes went up.

Lawyers...them bastages.

legion · 12-09-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dueller

Yeah, Legion...I'm wid ya.

Like those lawyers that sued Phillip Morris and RJR on behalf of the states who paid out billions of dollars in Medicaid for smoking related illness. Yep those lawyers got rich. And the states got billions of dollars put back into their treasuries. And DAMN them TO HELL....price of smokes went up.

Lawyers...them bastages.

IIRC, one of the main lawyers in that litigation is now in jail for bribing judges. It wasn't for the tobacco litigation, but the judge has said he felt like he "knew what he was doing and might have done this before". (paraphrased)

Besides, every study done shows that smokers are cheaper for health insurance companies--they usually die before more expensive diseases get them. The whole premise under which these companies were sued is totally false.

Dueller · 12-09-2008, 09:55 AM

LOL...damn, Legion....you will never concede a point.

Yup...Dickie Scruggs went to jail for trying to bribe a judge in a fee dispute case. Issue was whether he should pay a $1 million dollar fee versus a $14i million dollar fee to a former partner. Ironic, huh?

BTW...FWIW Scruggs is brother in law of that Republican icon, Senator Trent Lott. Who interestingly resigned a few days before the conviction. Coincidence? Hmmmmmmm....

T77911S · 12-09-2008, 10:04 AM

just because someone goes to college for umpteen years does not make them a better or more ethical person. just like being rich. money does not make brittney spears better than anyone else, it just makes her look worse when she does the stupid stuff she does.

cant beleive i am posting on another realtor bashing page....slow day on pelican i guess.

legion · 12-09-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dueller

LOL...damn, Legion....you will never concede a point.

Yup...Dickie Scruggs went to jail for trying to bribe a judge in a fee dispute case. Issue was whether he should pay a $1 million dollar fee versus a $14i million dollar fee to a former partner. Ironic, huh?

BTW...FWIW Scruggs is brother in law of that Republican icon, Senator Trent Lott. Who interestingly resigned a few days before the conviction. Coincidence? Hmmmmmmm....

If you search my user name and "Trent Lott", I'm sure you will see that I use the word "despise" most often in conjuction with the name "Trent Lott", and that I made allusions to Lott's involvement in that situation. Too bad the people that know first hand about Lott's involvement won't step forward and that he is no longer a juicy prize for a prosecutor being out of office and all.

Dueller · 12-09-2008, 10:27 AM

Yes, legion...I was aware of that. Hence my post.

Lott's other motivation was the change in lobbying laws for former legislators that went into effect a few weeks after his resignation.

legion · 12-09-2008, 10:40 AM

Let me be clear: I believe that Scrugss motivation was money and he could care less about helping people. He got rich abusing the legal system and hiring "experts" to paint a picture that had little to do with the truth--more than once. I believe John Edwards did the same thing.

Does that make all lawyers bad? No, but I do think that the money that can be earned encourages the abuse of the legal system.

Dueller · 12-09-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

Does that make all lawyers bad? No, but I do think that the money that can be earned encourages the abuse of the legal system.

Couldn't you saythe same thing about doctors who abuse the medicare system/insurance programs?

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

Hey Minkoff,
I understand that we're both developers of sorts. We need lawyers, no doubt.

I know this for a fact; a developer can have the best lawyer(s) and engineers/planners and develop a fantastic development. But, if that developer doesn't know how to market the project he will be bankrupt very quickly. Marketing is the essential key in every business. Marketing starts at the inception of the project and is part of every critical concept; without it the end results become futile.

Marketing "is" Sales; Sales "is" Life.

I have employed many, many lawyers in my time. I came to the conclusion after many years that they are no different than most; given the opportunity their natural instincts are to fight for what they believe is the right cause, sometimes and most often that is not always the best thing for their clients pocket book?

When I have clients that want to involve lawyers into our relationships I say to them this... "Let me give you a multiple choice question. You are going to send that "contract" (or such?) to your lawyer for his opinion and he is going to reply: A. Contract looks good, proceed, no charge for my services. OR B. We will need to make a few revisions and here is my bill for my services." So go ahead and give your lawyer his token. I would NEVER, nor legally could ever give a client RE advise to not seek legal council; in fact, it is my duty to make sure they understand their full legal commitments.

Point however is; There is no greater skill than to be able to understand the concepts of marketing. I'm an engineer; I've employed countless engineers, architects and lawyers over the years and I've made friends with many of them. Those that understand 'business' are the ones that I've chosen to make alliances of extended friendship with; good people regardless of their current professions.

As a mature developer, I also understand completely the art of contract law; especially as it applies to my Regions. I also offer the services of "Claims Consulting", as over the years I did employ a few of these people and learned a great deal from them. I take over my clients legal affairs and deal with their attorneys directly; something like a legal aid. My goal is to be as cost effective as possible and attain the desired results of my clients. I attend the job site meetings, I review the contracts, interview the contractors, suppliers, etc. I consult with the lawyers on how & why we should proceed in matters with the clients best interest. I have a couple of small files open right now; one involving my client a painting subtrade and a failing general contractor/developer in Canmore, AB; another a simple lien on a project in Calgary. My last 'big' claim was settled out of court after over a year of litigation; It involved a multi-million dollar subcontract with one of North Americas largest contractors and a huge developer. My invoice to my client for my year of services was $40,000. His lawyers invoices were over $250,000; we never did anything more than attend meetings and write letters. A loss of that lawsuit would have meant bankruptcy for my client. Lawyers you say?

My advise to anyone dealing with any professional is that they better understand the profession that they are dealing with; be clear and concise about how they instruct them OR they will suffer the consequences of being over charged or mis-guided. That goes for engineers, architects, lawyers and accountants. However, if you over look the importance of the marketing team and assisting them to their success, it will surely mean certain failure.

legion · 12-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dueller

Couldn't you saythe same thing about doctors who abuse the medicare system/insurance programs?

Certainly, but I think we are talking an order of magnitude in difference between the amount of money that can be earned misbilling medicare versus using the legal system to shake down companies.