Heat and Fluid dynamics

[pmajka]

Sorry for the boring topic, cant compete with Tiger suits and Jugs.

So i have an Oil Heater for the Home (basement). As it fires up its Diesely hot goodness, it billows exhaust through the chimney.

When this happens, i get Cold Air streaming through the Wall sockets of my 1st floor and other cracks and gaps.

i realize now that you cant push out what you cant pull in.....

I guess i need an air inlet for the oil burner.. Should I punch a Hole in the wall of the Boiler room?

I realize this will sacrifice the heat in that room for warmth else where.


any ideas suggestions?

[BGCarrera32]

A lot of houses have an air make-up / fresh air supply duct that runs into the room that has the heater. I have a hot water boiler system and there is a 6" insulated flexible duct line that punches through the basement wall and sits a few feet from the boiler. The outside opening for the duct has what looks like a larger version of a clothes dryer vent.

You want to suck in your make-up air through a dedicated supply like that and obviosly not through all the windows, outlets, etc. Because the supply duct is insulated, you don't loose all that much heat.

[masraum]

What you really need to do is caulk, block as many of the holes in the house as you can. Any hole that you feel cold air coming through is costing you money.

[masraum]

Here's some stuff that I found online.

A cheaper alternative to losing cold air through your electrical outlet and light switch plates is to purchase pre-cutFOAM GASKETS for your outlet plates at any hardware or home center store (i.e. Tart Lumber, Lowes, or Home Depot).

When we built our home and installed outlet plates--we insulated well and used the pre-cutFOAM GASKETS plates when we noticed cold drafts of air leaking through the outlets. They are pennies on the dollar--around $5-$10 for a package. Just follow the instructions on the package and they are easy to install--even if you are not a DIYer (Do-It-Yourselfer).

Below are some Consumer web sites and articles for energy savings, etc. Hints also for the Homeowner. Enjoy!

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...cool.pr_winter (U.S. Government's Energy site/info with great info for saving energy. Links for foam gasket outlets, etc.)

www.extension.missouri.edu/eregion/lifetimes/ (Missouri's Cooperative Extension web site of their magazine Life TimesWinter 2006 edition with hints on energy savings. Check out #6 for foam gaskets and other energy info).

advice.thisoldhouse.com/showthread.php?t=3489 (This Old House's site/info with caulking and sealing cold drafts on outlet plates, etc.)

[pmajka]

both excellent ideas....thanks

[onewhippedpuppy]

Most high efficiency wood stoves/fireplaces use a dedicated air inlet from the outside. I would think fabbing something similar (as suggested) near your heater would do the trick. Then follow up with weatherstripping/caulking windows, caulking any gaps/cracks/etc, replacing worn door thresholds and weatherstripping, outlet gaskets, etc. If you have access, adding insulation to your attic is cheap and easy. Even just going around the exterior of your home with caulking or expanding foam and sealing gaps can do wonders.

[oldE]

Pmajka,

Both suggestions should be followed in order to retain heat in your house and avoid gassing yourself.

The thing is, if you seal the house and do not provide combustion air, the start-ups will be smokey, (the diesely goodness you mentioned), but, when it shuts off, as the stove and flue cool, you might get combustion gasses coming back down the flue. Not something most householders appreciate.

If you lived in the area, we could do and energy audit and put the blower door on the house to determine the air changes/hour (4 is nice).

Take care.
Les

[Oracle]

What you need is fix those leaks and feed that heater with external fresh air otherwise you'll draw moisture into the house (negative pressure) and at that point the least of your concerns will be the loss of heat..

[billybek]

You need a dedicated make up (combustion air) to replace the air you are throwing out after combustion.
As you have already realized, your house is going negative (pressure) with regards to the outdoor and every little leak that exists is letting in air to compensate for the difference in pressure.
A combustion air is usually "trapped" so that the cold air doesn't just spill onto the floor of your utility room. That is, the outlet of the combustion air duct has to fill up a bucket and when the heater is in use that bucket flows air over the rim to provide air for combustion.
Think of it like a trap for a sink or a toilet...
Does that make sense?
Once you have provided a source for combustion air, your air leaks through the outlets should decrease.
It is still a good idea to seal all the other leaks.

[competentone]

Originally Posted by oldE

Both suggestions should be followed in order to retain heat in your house and avoid gassing yourself.

The thing is, if you seal the house and do not provide combustion air, the start-ups will be smokey, (the diesely goodness you mentioned), but, when it shuts off, as the stove and flue cool, you might get combustion gasses coming back down the flue. Not something most householders appreciate.

And don't forget to add, as an additional safety measure, a few carbon monoxide detectors -- especially important after you do anything to make your house tighter.

[gtc]

Funny story regarding negative pressure:
My company sells backup generators for large buildings. These usually consist of several large diesel gensets placed in the basement, with the exhaust running up to the roof of the building.
On a recent job we did, the construction company didn't provide enough fresh air venting to feed the engines. 3000 hp diesels need quite a bit of air, and when they couldn't get enough through the air duct they started generating a vacuum that eventually sucked the drywall right off of the walls of the generator room.

[bloke]

in order for the boiler to work properly u need fresh air for combustion fuel and air mixture
the duct system is excellent however you can be having another problem .it may be that the electrode on the the furnice is bad its called the THERMOCOUPLE THE DISTANCE ITS PLACED FROM THE NOZZLE CAN ALSO BE A FACTOR

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Most high efficiency wood stoves/fireplaces use a dedicated air inlet from the outside.

the best one's use the chimney and heat up the inlet with the outlet which then results in a more complete burn...

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by competentone

And don't forget to add, as an additional safety measure, a few carbon monoxide detectors --

they develop a memory that resets the base line higher if in the boiler room.

detector should be placed in a clean air room

if it's close to your boiler they can usually be "reset" by moving them to outside or a clean room for 24 hours. Check with your mfg.