anyone running E-85 right now?

[vash]

my work truck uses it...i have been told to use it as much as i can. i got the brand new truck because there is one station that sells the stuff near my home. 3 stations total in the bay area..or so i have been told.

i dont get it. ok, i get the green house gases part. green - check.

i lose 25% fuel economy. 400 miles on a tank of gasoline, 300 on E-85.
the stuff is 85 cents more per gallon.
and get this, my pump takes maybe 3 times as long to fill my truck. next time i am timing it.

i dont get it.

[red-beard]

Are you insane? Go buy some real gasoline. Or as real as you can get in California.

[herr_oberst]

Porsches specifically wont run with e-85 - this is a real problem.

[Gogar]

Is the "FEEL GOOD" feeling worth $.85 a gallon?

Just be happy. Less SMOG, more SMUG.

Oh, and the corn lobby thanks you. And all those farmers who used to grow wheat, potatoes, beets, soybeans, etc.

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

Porsches specifically wont run with e-85 - this is a real problem.

no its not. sacrificing a food source for fuel is a REAL problem

[Vipergrün]

We have all been scammed beyond belief with this whole Ethanol thing. Must be that new democratic math Al Gore invented....

[RoninLB]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123008114168231965.html

http://online.wsj.com/public/page/news-opinion-commentary.html

An Ethanol Bailout?
And we thought we'd seen everything.

WSJ; DECEMBER 24, 2008



Along with Russia, Venezuela, Iran and the Dubai property market, add another name to the list of bubble economies hurt by the falling price of oil: the ethanol industry. And naturally, the ethanol lobby is looking for a bailout on top of its regular taxpayer subsidies.

The commodity bust has clobbered corn ethanol, whose energy inefficiencies require high oil prices to be competitive. The price of ethanol at the pump has fallen nearly in half in recent months to $1.60 from $2.90 per gallon due to lower commodity prices, and that lower price now barely covers production costs even after accounting for federal subsidies. Three major producers are in or near bankruptcy, including giant VeraSun Energy.

So here they go again back to the taxpayer for help. The Renewable Fuels Association, the industry lobby, is seeking $1 billion in short-term credit from the government to help plants stay in business and up to $50 billion in loan guarantees to finance expansion. The lobby would also like Congress to ease the 10% limit on how much ethanol can be added to gasoline for conventional cars and trucks -- never mind the potential damage to engines from such an unproven mix.

Of course, the ethanol industry wouldn't even exist without the more than $25 billion in taxpayer handouts over the past 20 years. Congress only recently passed energy and farm bills that further greased ethanol production with a 51 cent a gallon tax credit, corn subsidies, plus increasingly stringent biofuel mandates. We were told, as usual, that profitability was just around the corner.

The uglier realities of corn ethanol are at least becoming more widely recognized, even on the political left. The Environmental Working Group and five other environmental organizations said this week they oppose a bailout because subsidies "for corn-based ethanol have produced unintended, yet potentially catastrophic environmental consequences, with little or no return to taxpayers in energy security [or] protection from global warming."

Don't expect Congress to listen. Ethanol may never be profitable in the real world, but in Washington it's a lucrative business that provides jobs and votes. Like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, ethanol is a business created by Congress that now has to be bailed out to save Congress from embarrassment.

[red-beard]

Here are the green jobs

[vash]

forgot about this thread.

yup, the bosses are mandated to use the stuff whenever possible.

i think the entire thing is super lame.

[red-beard]

Do they get some sort of credit for using E85? How can they tell from your receipts?

[vash]

we have a company credit card..each truck has a separate card. they know.

i think the government (fed level, or state level, i dont know) paid for a portion of the truck with the promise that it would be green. the last generation had propane systems that would lock up the computer system. they really sucked.

really stupid, i know.

[slakjaw]

I know a guy who bought a car because it would run e-85

He has only used it once. Says he will never buy it again.

[legion]

Originally Posted by vash

the stuff is 85 cents more per gallon.

I hadn't noticed that.

Then again, I think all of the gas stations around me have taken down their special E85 signs, so I wouldn't know anyway.

It seems that even with the government subsidies, ethanol is now priced much higher than gasoline. Without the subsidies, it would probably be around $5 a gallon.

From what I gather, ethanol plants are closing left and right. They could only kind of exist on government subsidies when oil prices were ridiculously high...

Also, as ethanol makes far less economic sense now, less people are buying it, which means it sits for longer, which means it absorbs more moisture from the atmosphere, which means it has and even greater potential to damage engines.

I hate to say it, but it seems your employer is putting misguided idealogy above sound financial decisions. (In San Francisco, gasp!) If it is a share company, that is irresponsible to the shareholders. If the person calling the shots owns the company, it is his decision, but it raises your operaring costs (increased fuel cost, reduced mileage, and increased wear on the vehicles) and leaves you more vulnerable to competition that can undercut you.

That's my 2¢.

[vash]

let me throw up a soft ball.

my employer IS the state of california.

[legion]

Originally Posted by vash

my employer IS the state of california.

No further explanation needed.

You guys didn't get into the hole you're in because only one person was digging...

(Illinois, on the other hand, is largely in a hole BECAUSE one guy did all of the digging...)