What's the best US diesel pick-up out there?

[aigel]

One word of caution: You MUST stay away from Ford 6.0 diesel engines through 05. They were terrible and earned the F-250 the "least reliable pick up truck" award in car mags. The 7.3 (2003 and earlier) is a proven work horse and still very simple, even with the turbo.

George

[speeder]

Originally Posted by aigel

He will want to go with the 7.3 liter PSD in a Ford. F250 or F350. If he is thinking "camper shell", he should consider the diesel equipped Excursion. It retains the solid front and rear axles and leaf springs for superior towing and dirt road driving, but has a much smoother ride than the pick up version. A diesel Excursion will also be cheaper than the truck. The Excursion has a 42 gallon tank and gets about 18 mpg if you keep 65 mph or under on flat terrain. The Ford truck part availability will be phenomenal in any remote location, as they are popular with farmers, loggers etc.

George

A diesel Excursion is a great "live aboard" rig. My cousin tows his race car in one all over the country. Even though he's pretty well-off, he sleeps in it because he hates motels. (As do I). If it's cold or really hot out you can leave it running with a window cracked for hours on end w/o over-heating or using a lot of fuel. When it was hot on my summer road trip I would leave the truck running with my dog inside and the A/C running for as long as I wanted. Diesels rock!

[aigel]

If he has a decent size budget, I recommend a van - again, stay away from that early 6.0...

[vash]

ooo. a quigley van...nice.

[aigel]

Here a 2000 Excursion. Can be had for about 15k with over 100k miles on the clock. I think the values may go up a bit again, since Diesel has come down so much:

[aigel]

Here you go - with decent service history, this thing will last for a 3 year road trip:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/982338717.html

George

[speeder]

Best road trip vehicle and best traveling companion, both sorely missed:

[TimT]

You MUST stay away from Ford 6.0 diesel engines through 05

Thats a bunch of bull.

I have an early build 03 6.0 PSD now has 173K on the clock..and the only service other than oil and fluid changes, brakes, tires, has been some emissions recalls to reflash the brain. Also I just noticed a small tear in the front seat from me getting in and out of this truck so often.

Like with and vehicle,, there are some bad ones in the bunch...

I've read more than one onvarious Ford bbs, where people were chipping the 6.0, over boosting, lifting the heads etc... and bringing them back to the dealer for warranty work, afterremoving the chips, and disconnecting power to the ecu for awhile.Took awhile for the dealers to catch on....

Having said that when I finally wear this truck out, I think Ill go with the Duramax/Allison combo,, just because the Allison transmission is so superior.

[TimT]

"simplicity"?!

A modern diesel engine ain't simple.

Ain't that the truth, witness Fords new 6.4 twin turbo, compund turbocharged..

I poked around under the hood of one and the is nothing simple about it.

[speeder]

I agree with everything Tim said, including the fact that many 6.0 owners have had no problems at all. All of the big 3 warrantee their diesels for 100k/5 years and Ford will put another 100k on any used 6.0 for about $1700 the last time I checked. A lot of the 6.0s that did have problems were replaced under warrantee with a newer version of the engine, (different injectors?), so those used trucks have lower miles on engine than the truck. It's all easliy checked by any dealer's service dept., give them a VIN# and they will tell you the service history under warrantee.

I also agree about the Chevy/Allison, the auto tranny is the weak link on the other two.

As for the Ford 6.4, haven't heard any bad talk about it yet though I have not been browsing those forums. Bad news usually travels fast, though, so if they were junk we'd know it already. The most important thing is not how simple or sophisticated they are, only how tough and reliable.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by TimT

Thats a bunch of bull.

No, it is statistics. Consumer reports does not pull ratings out of their hat. If the truck made least reliable list, it will be more likely to give you trouble than a vehicle that is on the most reliable list. And while there is chip tuning going on indeed, you can't tell me that those few tuned vehicles drag down the rating of an entire line of trucks (millions sold).

Just my two cents. Good to hear your truck holds up ok, but remember, a sample of one is not good statistics.

George

[911Rob]

This is diesel and has the back covered in already; lotsa fun and you don't have to stay on the main roads?


My son drives the Ford F350 and swears by it; he loves the mileage it gets. ?

[RideShoot&Drink]

Not a pickup truck, but already enclosed. Why is it the best? Because, it's a Mercedes.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by aigel

Hmmm...maybe I'm seeing the rear wheel wrong, but it almost looks to me like this van has four-wheel steering. Or again it might be the shadowing over the rear wheel.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by RideShoot&Drink

Not a pickup truck, but already enclosed. Why is it the best? Because, it's a Mercedes.

+1. If I needed a van, the Dodge-Mercedes would definitely be my choice.

[ednj]

The Duramax is made by Isuzu check the price and availability of those injectors.
Here is an interesting read.

(1) Isuzu owned Subaru, and sold out to Fuji Heavy Industries, which was then jointly acquired by British Leyland and Ford.

(2) BL & Ford then spun off Fuji/Subaru into an independent company. Big mistake. Ford bought BL, and owned Isuzu outright. Big mistake.

(3) Isuzu entered into a joint development partnership with Navistar International. Stock interests were traded. Eventually, one of the projects would be a 7.3L V-8 light-duty diesel. Guess who picked that one up for use in its pickup trucks?

(4) Navistar also had entered into a joint development partnership with Caterpillar. One of the projects was a direct injection system that would be picked up by -- Ford. And Isuzu mediums.

(5) Caterpillar owned a large chunk of Bosch. GM owned another big chunk. And so did a third major player -- Daimler Benz. Bosch was the primary developer of Caterpillar's direct injection system. But GM forced Caterpillar to turn over its share of Bosch, and then forced Bosch to abandon direct injection in favor of developing an "improved" generation rotary injection pumps. The initial designs for those pumps had been brought to GM by former Isuzu engineers working for Ford.

(6) What did Caterpillar receive in return for giving GM its stock in Bosch? GM's stock in Cummins. Ford then sold its small share of Cummins stock because of antitrust regulations in the U.S. Caterpillar, on the other hand, avoided antitrust problems by a joint incorporation agreement with Cummins under a Brazilian operation named Inquardo, Ltd.

(7) Eventually almost all Cummins manufacturing and design were moved over to that part of the "house". However, that move proved so efficient and profitable that Cummins began to eat into significant markets for Caterpillar, so Caterpillar merged its manufacturing and design base with Cummins in Brazil, leaving skeleton operations only in places like Peoria, Illinois. Cummins management largely pushed out Caterpillar management after several years.

( With me so far? Caterpillar owns Cummins, but Cummins has effectively "eaten" Caterpillar. In Brazil. Here, they're separate, of course, but it's only the purposes of adhering to American commercial law. But wait. There's more.

(9) Ford had some disasterous capitalization-and-flow problems after the overseas buying spree of the early nineties, during which it acquired British Leyland, Isuzu, Fuji, part of Fiat, and parts of other companies. Ford was forced to sell Isuzu to maintain cash flow beyond the U.S. Who did they sell Isuzu to? Navistar International. Along with certain manufacturing and sourcing arrangements. Navistar hoped to go global again, as in the grand old days of International Harvester.

(10) But Navistar couldn't hold on to Isuzu either, what with a $2 billion dollar loss in 1995, and eventually sold its controlling interest in the company to Daimler Benz.

(11) Isuzu was having its own problems, since its global market share in light and medium diesels was rapidly shrinking. The cause of the problem was Cummins, which, after swallowing Caterpillar - in Brazil - had also acquired NGT, Tapei Technologies, Allison Canada, and Nansen-Renault, all in hostile takeovers, all manufacturers of diesel technologies outside of the U.S. So, Cummins had effectively cornered the controlling share of the global market outside of North America and Western Europe. (Why do you think the splashgate at their website is so heavily global?)

(12) After nine months of negotiation, Cummins and its subsidiary, Allison Canada, entered into a joint development arrangement with Isuzu, owned by Daimler, and with the surviving U.S. corporation, Allison, which was at that point partly owned by GM. Cummins, however, dominated the partnership, and eventually managed to assume Daimler's and GM's interests in Isuzu and and Allison.

(13) In the case of Isuzu, Cummins has an equal partnership with Daimler, which, of course, has also acquired Chrysler Corporation. That's why, when Ford offered Cummins a billion-dollar package to manfacture medium and light truck diesels for its vehicles in 2001, Cummins said no. Again, for antitrust reasons, a public holding company was set up to handle Isuzu as a separate corporate entity. The name of the company is Benz Transporation Technologies, of San Paulo, Brazil. BTT also is a major owner of the Benz division of Daimler Chrysler, which manufacturers most of the diesel engines in Europe. In the case of Allison, Cummins controls it through a series of holding companies ending with Inquardo, Ltd., the orginal Caterpillar-Cummins creation in Brazil. Cummins also controls a fair-size block of stock in GM, through the ownership of a cartel of South Korean and Thai banks and investment groups.

(14) Navistar has continued its free-fall in spite of its partnership with Ford in the light-duty diesel area. Three weeks ago, after the implications of labor troubles, a rise in basic resource costs, and the disasterous introduction of the 6.0L PSD had become clear, Navistar's financial arrangements with Citibank and Manufacturers B&T collapsed. Both banks arranged to float the company infrastructural loans if it would agree to a merger with -- are you ready for this? -- Inquardo, Ltd. As of last Thursday, Cummins owns 67% of Navistar through Inquardo.

Right now, Cummins makes all diesels in all pickup trucks sold in the United States. Cummins makes 73% of all diesels in all trucks sold in the world. The board of directors at Inquardo -- which isn't listed on any stock exchange -- includes 9 Cummins execs, 2 Caterpillar execs, and one Wells Fargo Bank exec. The CEO and CFO are also Cummins vice presidents. And there are Cummins execs on the boards of Daimler Chrysler, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda America. Ford, the holdout, has not been doing very well.

So it isn't a question of who owns Cummins. It's a question of who Cummins owns, and who's next. Could be Ford. Could be DC. Could be both. Ford Viper, anyone? Mercedes Mustang with a 6.0L Shelby Diesel and a Holset twin turbo?

And some have claimed that the new Navistar/Ford 6.0L is Cummins' revenge for the Bosch VP44"

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by RideShoot&Drink

Not a pickup truck, but already enclosed. Why is it the best? Because, it's a Mercedes.

These are great. I agree.

I was looking at the Airstream Interstate (small RV) built on this platform. Very nice. Beautifully finished. Great mileage.

[TerryH]

If I was shopping truck, I would look specifically at these power plants.

diesel: Cummins

the undiesel: Triton V10 recent version

[speeder]

None of the big 3 makes their own diesel for their light trucks. Not sure why this is, not like it's a project out of their league.

[RideShoot&Drink]

Originally Posted by Dottore

These are great. I agree.

I was looking at the Airstream Interstate (small RV) built on this platform. Very nice. Beautifully finished. Great mileage.

Don't we all want theese qualities...sad, but tells you a lot about the state of domestic automobile industry...