Undeserving owners? I think so.
 

Hey everyone, I just need to get this off my chest.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED, to the water cooled front engine market? I've owned a few over the years and am possibly looking for a CLEAN 944/951/968 (any one of the 3) once again for D.D. duties split between that and my C36.

BUT, it seems like EVERY front engine Porsche out there has been bought and SEVERELY neglected by a retard. Instead of maintenance or service, it got red dash vents and a B.S."filter intake"! These cars are cheap to buy, not so cheap to maintain. Thats why the guy that was going to get that Cavalier Z24 or Honda civic si, seems to buy and destroy these wonderful cars. They see a "porsch" for the same $ as a Nissan sentra and treat them like one. Not understanding that the car is old and needs a lot of upkeep. Hoses,vacuum lines, various sensors, power steering lines, bearings,engine oil seals, etc etc. The same cars will be bought, never maintained, then sold with "very fast" in the selling description. These owners (sad but there are some on PP) should have satisfaction that they own a better than average car. There's nothing worse than seeing a riced out, beat, Porsche.


I'm going to stop now before I get really P!$$^d off. Am I just being a jerk or do some of you see what I'm talking about?

that is a rennlist thing...and yea, it has gone down hill as fast as the demographics of the new owners.

Typically when I see "very fast" in the description, I move on. That to me screams, "I beat the hell out of it". Even worse when they brag about the cars they've beaten drag racing.

You have to look at enthusiast based sites. That's where most of the well-maintained, non-abused cars reside. In casually looking, I've seen some nice 944s advertised on Pelican. Sites like Craigslist are tuner hell. It happens with every semi-fast and attractive car when the price gets low enough, the bottom feeders can afford to buy one and tack on a bunch of Pep Boys mods and stickers. I tried to find an Integra GSR or Prelude SH for a daily driver, but couldn't find any that weren't abused or rice. Same thing goes for E36 BMWs, etc.

Welcome to our world

Network with local PCA chapter, Pelican for sale, post on regional Pelican forum, find the mechanics who service these cars and let them know you're looking.

We got lucky on craigslist looking for an older Jetta for my son. Found one an adult had owned that had some tasteful well done mods including engine. 99% of what I saw was cars owned by idiots that were thrashed.

or people part them out.

but most people who buy em are teenagers and they basically run them until they can't start. I've seen some some nice 928's and 944's, and 24's that were run to basic submission. kinda makes me sad, because these cars had there hay day when people actually were impressed when they saw it drive by.

And I had a decent, well-maintained 951 for sale and it took me 5 months to sell it.

I know how to go about finding what I want, but thanks for the help. ;) I was just mainly venting atop my "high horse" of how many cars are "ruined" or would be such money pits that they aren't even "DD-able"

I feel the same way. I was in my very late teens and early 20's when I owned all of mine. It's just a different mentality. A euro car enthusiast is way different than the "tuner" crowd.

During my commute, I pass a bright yellow 944 8v with an aluminum touring car rear wing, spray painted cookie cutters, blacked out tint, and large porsche decals on front and rear windshields.

I've never seen it move. It really bums me out, especially the wing that looks like it 'belongs' on a 1988 Accord doing the 'sponsored by Pep Boys' bit. I always think 'man I gotta take a picture of this bad boy and post it on pp for great amusement.'

There was an early 944 slammed on some "mr. tire" wheels, gauges galore, and an aluminum touring wing screwed straight into the factory rubber spoiler, that I used to pass going to work. This one was red.

Same here, but a 924S. The only interest I got for it back in Seattle was trade for a jet ski. At least in San Antonio I was able to sell the car, but I want to say it took at least 2 months.

My Watercoolers are top-notch and I've owned 3-928 and a 951. The 951 is a concours winner and the two 928 I currently own are in great shape. One was even in Excellence!

My 944 is a bone stock daily driver... I maintain it myself, which means that mechanically it's in good shape but cosmetically it looks like a 20 year old paint job and a 20 year old interior. When someone put a good dent in my fender in a parking lot mishap, I drove it like that for almost a year before getting a new fender to paint and install.

There's a 944 I sometimes see on my way in to work with an aluminum wing glued directly to the glass in the back hatch, about 2/3 of the way down the glass. I'm sort of hoping they fiddle with the angle enough for the downforce to put that poor P-car out of its misery.

From time to time, I go look at 944's and 928's in Pelican's listings... just to torture myself (because I can't afford to buy any of 'em right now)... and the ones I've been seeing look pretty well kept to me. YMMV, of course.

Have you seen any of these?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/449402-super-nice-early-944-sale.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/447526-fs-1994-porsche-968-a.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/433597-fs-1982-porsche-928-pacific-blue-metallic.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/445392-1993-porsche-968-6-speed.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/443049-85-944-n-very-clean-well-maintained-5-500-a.html

I feel the same way about the much vaunted AMC Pacer. There aren't many good ones left.

I don't think I'd even consider buying a Pcar from someone who owned it when they were under 30.

Yeah I saw them. Again looking for something way closer to my local. I dont want to fly or drive somewhere just to go look at something. If I was looking for another 930 then maybe.

WHen I got the Porsche bug, I missed out on the first car I wanted, and wound up buying a clean 928. Just as I was going out to look at it, this old hag with hair on her face came up to me and said '' Beware the Ides of March.''. I should have listened.

I learned to utter ''Et tu ?'' while being stabbed in the back by yet another 928 ''expert''.

When I bought my last one, a lady arose from a lake dressed in shimmering cloth made of silk and gold. She said ''Behold, I bring forth unto you Excaliber, never touched by hands impure.'' In her hand was a mighty key, emblazoned with a noble crest. She beconed me toward a fine Automobile, that was at one moment blue, the next second plumb, and in the right sunlight a brilliant glowing purple. It was parked in a field filled with brand new GT3s and Aston Martins, I kid you not.

It did not look out of place at all.

It's a lot of hard work to keep a waterpumper in good/prime shape. God knows mine doesn't look it (horrible paint, dented fender, etc.) but mechanically it's in excellent order. Problem is most people wouldn't know or appreciate the many hours (and dollars) required to get it mechanically solid. When you can get a Honda Civic that looks halfway decent (i.e. no mismatched body panels, dents or whatever) and runs well for $4,000, why would most people be willing to pay the same amount for a "boring" 20-year-old 944 with some cosmetic issues?

I keep mine for me - not anyone else.

Excellent advice. I'd expand that to read "I don't think I'd even consider buying ANY car (or motorcycle) from someone who owned it when they were under 30."

While I haven't seen them in person, there are a ton of 944s out there on CL up and down the Eastern Seaboard. I do a daily crazedlist.org for Porsche under $8K and while the random beat to hell SC pops up and of course early 928 horror stories, it appears (and I know I'm just looking at bad pics on CL) that there are a lot of GOOD 86+ cars out there for $5K.

I know this will get me in trouble, but I do shake my head when I see 83 944s for $7K. Who in their right mind would pay $7K for an 83-85 944?

Go to crazedlist.org and do a multi-state search. You can even save the search parameters.

While some might not believe me, my three waterpumpers ('87 951, '87 924s, '77 924) all are very solid reliable cars. All were bought cheap and all three ended up getting repainted, but all three have their original engines and transmissions. Two of them survived my teen daughters and while the 924's are worth nothing, I would not hesitate to drive either on a long cross country trip. I had to do some extensive repairs on all three when purchased, but after that, they have been remarkably fairly trouble free.

Two are sitting in my shop with expired plates, but I intend to keep them forever.... Who knows, maybe 20 yrs from now they will be worth something again.

I agree with Tim - properly sorted, a 944 is an excellent and very reliable car. However, getting one "properly sorted" might be quite an ordeal, given how many are owned by teenage stooges and poseurs looking to go pimpin' in a "Porch".

Last year, I bought an '87 944S to turn it into a race car.

It has instead morphed into my daily driver. Comfortable, great visability, lotsa cargo room (I've hauled all kinds of stuff back there), fun to drive and almost 30 mpg. What's not to like?

Hey damn it! I'm 28 and I can assure you of one thing: both Porsches I have owned left my ownership in much better condition than they were when I purchased them. Both were purchased from older PCA members, and both had some, ahem, deferred maintenance.:rolleyes:

Part of my car ADD stems from getting bored with a car when it's "done". Done typically includes replacing all the fluids with synthetics, replacing every filter, detailing the hell out of it, and replacing or repairing everything that is out of order. Repairs can range from the engine coolant temp. sensor that was making my 951 idle rough to a full suspension rebuild. That's why I always easily sell them for more than I paid. Damn young-uns.:D Don't paint with too broad a brush, I was 23 when I had the 911 and 25 when I had the 951.

I would take offense to that if after seeing my cars, and service records/parts receipts you'd still say that. ;) I'm 31 in March.

Thats another reason. Those coupes can lug more junk around than my c36 sedan, the friggin' seats don't fold. I used to live in Philly during the week, then on weekends come back to my house in MD. My trips home had the seat backs down and crap piled up to the rear glass. Jon Beasly who own Budds Creek mx track and MIR drag strip used to have a 951 as a yard car around 1992. He'd have shovels, hay bails, lawn mowers, what have you hangin' out the back. Used to give him the ole' stink eye way back then for that.

Sorry Matt. I was gonna' buy your AMG and all but now... Naaaaaaaaah. ;)

Shouldn't you be buying a minivan?:D

They are doing you a favor. you should be grateful ;)

Seriously, it is not logical to pour a large amount of money into maintaining a vehicle that isn't worth that much.
If someone buys a car for $4k, they probably aren't going to be willing to spend $2k maintaining it and fixing it up if that investment will not increase the car's re-sale value.

Enthusuasts may not share that opinion but the majority of people do. That's why they buy a car and run it into the ground. It just isn't worth fixing.

A perfect example is the 928. A very nice and very expensive car when new, but the values dropped like a rock because they are so expensive to maintain and repair. They weren't worth spending lots of money on to most people.

Just curious... so are you saying that if you liked a car well enough from photos and talking or emailing the owner, you wouldn't consider having it checked out by a local Porsche mechanic (and possibly a Pelican member if there was one nearby) as step two of the process, then going to drive it if the expert/independent evaluation was favorable?

Odds are you aren't going to find your perfect car locally. Even if you live in NYC or LA, the odds of the EXACT version of a low-volume car being available to you nearby is slim. If you make some compromises, you might get something close.

Honestly, figure out what you want then set out to find the best example possible, regardless of location. You might even find a good enough deal to offset your plane ticket.

That would be a viable option. One that I would be MOST appreciative of. Right now I'm just starting my search. I'm looking at local cars first because I haven't locked in a 944/51/68 as the "one". Looking at other types of cars too. Audi,BMW,Mercedes. By March I think I'll be making the decision.