The Wife and I did the same thing this year, no presents for each other and adopted 2 families. She did the majority of the work, but I went and helped deliver the food baskets and gifts. There were 116 families this year and it is always a different experience with each family. Some, the Wife/Mother/Girlfriend will hide in a bedroom so that you won't recognize them around town as "needy". Most are grateful and the kids get a kick out of it.

I think the kids are key, they're the ones who need a positive experience in their lives, no matter how much of a screw up the parents are. The food baskets help because I'm sure if some of these "adults" had $100 in their pocket it would go towards beer and cigarettes.

What you're doing is a good thing and that's what you need to take from the experience if nothing else. I've got more toys and crap than any person has a right to, might as well spread the wealth.

Volunteer at an animal shelter or a Greyhound rescue. That has been very rewarding for me, and I bet your kids would love it. The dogs ALWAYS love it.

Confusus say: man is not measured by the size of their tv alone

my neighbors have a big tv...new furniture etc...they rent it all. it's like watching the idiots come in to the supermarket with a bucket of change and feed that machine that sorts it....(that is always a good laugh for me, but seriously, it really gives one perspective on how dumb people are )

Years ago, a company that I worked with used to select a family to adopt for Christmas. This went well until the last year we did it... On this particular year, we had selected a family (referred by a local charity organization) with a disabled mother and several pre-teen children. We gathered all the items for a wonderful Christmas dinner, probably several months of canned and non-perishible foods, cleaning supplies, hygiene items and a few gifts (within the paremeters suggested by the organization) for the children.

There was so much stuff that we had to deliver it with my pickup truck and a subaru station wagon! Four of us showed up at the house, a low income subsidzed apartment. The children and mother were all home. Mother had her bed in the living room across from the TV. As she was disabled we did not expect any help moving the items in. The children however, were perfectly capable but just sat there while we hauled in load after load of items. Then she started *****ing because we were blocking her view of the TV...

The kids gifts were last. They asked if that was all... :rolleyes: No "thank you" no nothing.

Ingrates beget ingrates... But here's the deal, Wayne.

Don't let the unworthy spoil the help you are willing to give to those who genuinely need a hand. Find someone (or something) else to benefit from your kindness. Volunteer work rocks. Teach someone to read, mow an elderly widow's lawn, make home made blankets for the homeless shelter, cleanup a national park...

My company has all the concessions at Lake Powell. Every winter we have a cleanup day. Go out on the boats to Rainbow bridge, etc., and pick up every piece of trash on the site and shoreline. Make a beautiful place beautiful again - and have a great family together day in the bargain.

angela

Poor people are addicted to T.V.

We should all be thankful, it helps keep them quiet and docile.

This is good advice.

One of Buddhas teachings was 'expect no reward for acts of charity'.

Perhaps this picture I took in India will put American poverty in perspective. This photo was taken in a very nice area, with expensive homes. But the poor simply live in mud huts on the vacant lots next door. This is where their kids play.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1233340279.jpg

And that photo isn't even scratching the surface of the poverty that's common in India. At least those kids in that photo don't know they're poor. I've seen some heart-wrenching, horribly maimed beggars in other countries, folks who would get rich panhandling in the U.S. Worse yet, some of those kids are kidnapped and maimed by their kidnappers to make them more pitiful beggars. There is a lot of suffering out there and not too much in the U.S.

Looks like parts of LA

Except the kids would all have Nike's on and big TV's at home.

I still have a 36 inch Sony Wega old school tv. All my friends have fancy tv's, its just not high on my priority list.

We also adopted a family over Christmas, as we have over the past few years.

I did Habitat for Humanity every summer I was in College for a week through my Church group, and am thinking about finding a local house this summer to help with.

Bill

The "U.S." version of poverty includes cable TV, fresh water, indoor plumbing and obesity. We haven't had real poverty in the U.S. since the 1930's.

Here's what poverty looks like:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1233340875.jpg

For all you know the charitable guy before you brought over the TV(maybe that's what they asked for last year). :D

Wayne,

I am on the receiving end of the adoption this year. Due to Spencer, we had a local family adopt us for Christmas and the future moving forward. They have already came in for a visit to the hospital last week. I can say we were super touched by their generosity and giving. As well as their sincere interest in Spencer and his journey through cancer treatments. We have a nice house, a Porsche in the garage...we are OK. They make the comment multiple times how doing this for Spencer and us made THEIR Christmas.

It also has inspired us to adopt a family with cancer and going through treatment for next year and moving forward. There is a ton of satisfaction in doing this for a family that has their life turned upside down. We appreciated it tremendously and only can hope the family we adopt next year will feel the same.

Sorry the feeling wasn't there for you. Hope you find a family you can connect with and stay in contact forever.

Cheers,

Mike

In reading this thread some of you have ridiculous notions of what poor people should be like.

Do you really expect them to be sitting shoeless in an empty apartment with a 13" black and white TV? Their kids want things just like yours do, they go out and get them for them just like you do.

The REAL difference between a poor person and a rich person in America is the savings account and the brand names we buy. That 53" magnavox costs less than your 35" Pioneer, so don't be shocked if their TV is bigger than yours. They simply maximized their bang for their buck on size instead of quality.

I don't take pictures of the slums, but yes, outside Delhi and Bombay, there are astonishing shanty towns that stretch as far as the eye can see. Millions and millions. The desperation is so great.

You stop along the highway at night, and you realize there are people sleeping in the ditches, with massive, poorly tuned diesel trucks rolling by.

Going to a developing country will change how you think about the world. It sure did for me.

THey're probably saying on some other board, "We went over there and the effin' guy had a Porsche!"

It's all about perception.

Tough subject, this...who is "worthy" of our help. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way at all. There are those that play the margins of our sympathies and desire to help, so I understand the frustration.

Over the years, after getting much the same results as Wayne, I have developed a few litmus tests to focus my charitable efforts on the truly needy (as I see it):

- No gifts of any kind other than necessities such as food, wood for a fire, or clothing if you don't know them in advance. Once you get a sense of the individual or family, that can change.

- Many have mentioned it on the thread, but on of the best gifts is time: Years ago we took a disadvantaged family to dinner and a movie...we had met them before and we all liked each other so it was natural and not uncomfortable. Moose, the Dad, offered to come help me with some farm stuff and we agreed. We all had a ball.

Funny thing with spending time not money: giving folks things or money is less valuable than our time. And everybody knows it.

Interesting side note on Moose. He was disabled in an accident and once he got back on his feet (literally) he got work as a tow truck driver and did well. He got offered a job in Michigan and needed a car (more on cars later) reliable enough to get his family there. I gave him a 1976 320i that I was commuting in, dead reliable and worth about $400.00 bucks. Best thing I ever did. Still get a Christmas cards from the Moose's. I've got many Moose stories, some of them not flattering.

- Help with cars. I became very adept at helping fix old Monte Carlos and other assorted Detroit iron. Sounds like I'm profiling but we did the work and I did the math:) Mobility is life so I insisted that whoever owned the car was going to get greasy.

- Volunteer. The time thing again. I do the Habitat thing once a month because I like it and I get a sense of the health of my community. That is how I met Moose.

- Old folks. Great post(s) earlier. When my wife's Grandfather was in an assisted care facility years ago, my whole focus shifted. I took the kids there every Sunday and spent at least two hours with Grandpa Jack and his circle of friends. The three Thanksgivings we celebrated when he was there were great because any of his buddies that didn't have a place to go came here. Nothing like five old farts telling stories...

- Animals. Great post(s) earlier. My Mom was the head of the local SPCA when I was in high school and college. There is no greater calling or more noble work. It is not for the feint of heart or for me. I couldn't do it.

- Once you retire. Best guy I know, a retired Navy O-6, Vietnam helo pilot, medals and ribbons you can't believe, my old XO and CO when I was doing flight test at Patuxent River, did it right, walked the "I just want to give back" walk:

He started 'Healthy Connections' from scratch after he retired. Read about HC and my buddy Bob Young here: http://www.healthy-connections.org/index.php

Amazing man who could flat our rock in a helo...I learned a lot from him.


Sorry to be so preachy, but volunteering, giving, is when we are at our best.

Those people aren't poor.

i dont know what to say! your amazing!

nice story mike, hope all is well. my sister died from cancer at 13.

wayne, keep looking, find someone that WANTS the help, and not looking for a handout.

I basically agree with what you say. There is much to consider in addition to what one first visually percieves and often, that which ought to be considered isn't readily available to do so. In Wayne's example, I can't judge the people without more information.

If I imagine a scenario within which I'm an honest, hard working father supporting my family to the best of my ability and no matter that I'm doing the very best I can, we are living at or below the poverty level and my wife and kids have no more than the bare essentials and the prospects of that situation changing for the better are slim to none, I would be torn with sadness and maybe not think it unreasonable to somehow scrape together enough to buy the family a really super TV for my kids to have as at least one luxury item of their own, which would allow them to at least experience vicariously through that window to the world, some of life's goodness that I just can't afford to give them.

Maybe Wayne's family fits that scenario, maybe not. I don't know.

Hey Wayne I understand your pain....as a needy family what size TV do you need? I am sure some of the better to do Pelicans can chip in and buy you a big screen so that will lift your self esteem. At least to the level of those poor people who have more advantage then you do now....

Those people usually have $50.00 in thier savings account, and sacrificed that to get nice stuff for their kids and their wife.

By American standards, they're poor.

BTW: The streets in American ghettos are lined with Mercedes Benz.

Well put Angela. I second her suggestion.

I totally agree!

I support your caring and efforts. Sadly a while ago, and I always say it was when tv went from black and white to colorized although it had nothing to do with it, American people lost the concept of shame. We are now widely a society of screw everyone else as long as I get mine. You have a good soul Wayne whatever you do don't lose that.

When I was a kid, my parents were dirt poor. We had some old hand me down POS black and white TV with rabbit ears. What Wayne just described kind of irks me.

Mom left dad and we actually lived in the station wagon for like a week on our way back to CA where there was family. Where were people like Wayne back then?

Wayne, I did this for years also but gave it up for the same type of reasons you stated. Now Jordan and I box up his old toys/clothes and donate them to the Women's w/ Children center so that their kids can enjoy the toys/clothes that Jordan used to love. We do this two to three times a year instead of just once a year.

There's a difference between giving from the heart and giving from the heart with conditions placed on the recipient. The latter may not be unreasonable, but doesn't always work out to the giver's satisfaction.

Some may give from the heart while accepting that the recipient falls short of their ideals.

Some can find that at some point their giving is no longer felt as being from the heart. I guess that if that happens, it's logical to find someone else to give to because your heart tells you to.

In the end, it's a decision that only the giver can make; gotta know what's in your own heart, I guess.

i'll never call bs on a family raising a down sydrome child. the world is an entirely different place for folks like this (as you certainly know Wayne) and not everyone is mentally equipped to handle it as well as it appears Wayne's family does.

Wayne you have the right to be upset as you know exactly what it's like but i just couldn't find it in myself to do so.

As a mother to a child with Down syndrome, I too can understand Wayne's issue. It sounds like these people have bigger TVs then I do so Wayne you can give to me and Jordan this year...

SmileWavy

any single child on this planet deserves more than every animal that ever has, does or will exist.

Like Angela said, don't let a few not-so-truly-needy or ingrates spoil your desire to help. Just find a family that is truly needy and appreciative next time.

My wife and some of her friends did the adopt a family thing this past holiday season. Somehow the family was discovered through someone's local elementary school. Teachers seem to have an idea of which kids come from the really needy families. My wife was a little surprised when they dropped off the gifts this year; there were bare concrete floors (and not in the uber fashionable polished concrete modernist industrial look), exposed plumbing, bed in every room, etc. And the family (and kids) seemed truly grateful. The family offered them refreshments, asked my wife's group to come in and talk, etc. Very rewarding, and definitely something that would make you want to do the same for them annually, if not every month.

http://www.globalgiving.com/
http://www.kiva.org/

These two sites have a great deal of giving potential. The people on them are really in need, and with kiva you get the money back to reinvest.

Charity to me is very personal and I’ve always believed in anonymity as much as possible. There is a special joy in giving, and often that joy is realized at the very moment we decide to make the charitable gesture; however the secret is to hold onto that joy throughout the process, as others have stated clearly “non-conditionally”. This is were much additional joy can be achieved.

I’ve always taught my children, to whom much is given, much is required. If I could take one thing and have it instilled into the hearts of my children, it would be to have a ‘serving heart’. I love to see my children take the things that we have been blessed with and utilize it to serve others ;)

As for down syndrome children, I have some special relationships in my life too. These kids are a tremendous source of positive energy filled with joy and it is more often than not that we can learn from these children more than we could ever provide.

There's business, family/friends and charity. A wise man taught me to keep them all separate.

Wayne, I'm not sure about your neck of the woods anymore but here in Alaska I contribute to the Special Olympics. For those short on the cash end one can volunteer for any number of special events held throughout the year. The nice part about this is one can volunteer and donate needed cash without it being plastered all over the place. You may want to check this out.
With respect to what many have commented on here I really think America and the rest of the world need to sit down and have a serious discussion regarding birth control. Far too often, here in America and Alaska, I routinely run into single parent households on government assistance of some sort or another with the mother of 2-3 children expecting another soon. If all it would take is a big tv to prevent this sort of thing then I'm all for it but unfortunately it isn't. I think we as a nation should end subsidized childbirth and find solutions to the root problem. I agree, solutions to prevent poor decision making is the key.
Clint

You don't have to be poor, to be in need! Someone helping you in a time of crisis is exceptional.

I'd be a fool to totally disagree with that, but can't we be universally charitable?

Interesting that Wayne will give his trucks out in the name of his selected customers and yet the effort for a toy drive late last year to benefit kids at CHOC (Orange County), many with cancer, totally failed and was canceled due to lack of interest.

Well Milt IMO no, at least not where animals are concerned. To be completely honest i believe that as long as children around us are in need, real need, that every dollar given to a satisfy a human need to anthropomorphise animals is wasted.

This begs the question 'how do i allocate my charitable giving?' and the only answer i have to that is i personally believe there is no more deserving soul on the planet than a child. Beautiful innocent little people that want nothing more than to be loved and be the center of attention.

Wow, how times change. The last time I was involved in that OCR toy drive was about three years ago and we showed up with an entire truck full of toys, so many that they weren't sure where they were going to put them all.
Are people still showing up for the breakfast meetings or is that dying out too?

There was an Orange Coast Region auto-x and another toy drive that same day. The other toy drive had something like 3,000 cars the year before when I went. I went to the auto-x in 2008, so I don't know how big it was in 2008. But the poor signup for the CHOC toy drive was some monumentally bad timing, not lack of interest IMO.

This thread has made me think about my own charitable giving and I suspect it has done so for others as well.

I never give money to people panhandlres. Hard-hearted bastid? Maybe, but I have watched these people take money and go straight to the liquor store for booze. I am not going to enable alcoholism.

Some years ago I gave a small donation by check to one of the downtown missions claiming to feed the homeless. Over the next two years I received too many slick soliciations from this group to count. I swear they spent more for those brochures than I gave them. One appeal a year, fine, 15-30, no thanks.

I mostly give to scholarship funds now. At least the recipients are trying to better themselves. Or so I tell myself.

As to the big screen TV - meh. Bad decisions do not necessarily make them bad people. They may not even realize how foolish that expenditure was. And, most likely, it is their sole form of entertainment. A "gimme" attitude on the other hand is not going to open my wallet.

Time vs. money: My partner and her daughter went to Mexico last year with their church group to help build housing for some desparately poor people in Tijuana (sse picture above for an example of how they live). Not only were the recipients extremely grateful, but they worked right alongside the church members who supplied both building materials and labor.

Hard to beat that and the daughter got a really worthwhile lesson in just how good she had it. I am going to try to get my own daughter to do something similar with me this year.