It seems to be the new American Way - buy what you want but can't afford; ask for help for what you need but can't buy.

I think it is personal pride/shame. I'd sell all my/our possessions to make sure my family had what they needed before I asked for any help. I agree with you that this is truly disappointing.

I would feel the same way about it. I would hope as you did that the TV was a gift. If the family is representing themselves as needy then the TV is a symbol of deception.

Although one thing to consider is that the family may not have always been needy. Certainly people right now are having their lives literally crumble around them. If the TV was something that helped my kids be happy I would do what I could to keep it around. Maybe it's flawed logic but that could be the situation.

I'm sure there are plenty of needy families out there who don't have "misplaced priorities" (which I suspect is what your your last two have). Is there any way to locate one via "word of mouth", etc. where you can do a bit of due dilligence before bestowing your generosity upon them? I can understand parents wanting to make their kids happy, but crass materialism under dire circumstances isn't a path I would choose. "Living within one's means" may be one of the most valuable lessons my parents' taught me. Good luck!

Wayne,
Read "Atlas Shrugged", it will help you understand why you feel the way you do. We help others through our church, but I realize that most of these people are in the situation they're in because of bad choices they have made.

Wayne,
I know you're a very busy man, but take the time to read the book and you'll come away with a much better understanding of what we're going through and the root causes. Thanks again for providing this forum and for helping us keep our cars on the road!

The simple solution is to go buy a big honkin' TV. But you know that's not the real issue.

Think of it this way. Everyone has the ingrained need to have something special, perhaps a touch extravagant. For them, it's a big ol' TV. (after all, TV is a pretty cheap entertainment.) For others, it's a 959. ;)

Let it go, "forgive me of my debts, as I also forgive my debtors."

This is one of the reasons I have been so disgusted lately. For many months now, I have to listen some whining about how bad life has been for the middle and lower class when in reality, these people have been doing much better than life as I remember it growing up in the 70's/80's. Many in our society seem to be be unaware of what true poverty is anymore.

Wayne, go find a different way to do charitable work. I'd feel a bit funny about working with families like you've described and would start a different tradition immediately. I know you'd like to use this as a vehicle to impress positive values and provide good experiences for your kids, but, this clearly sends the wrong message.

I've been in the habit of contributing sandwich materials and helping make sandwiches at one of the local "soup kitchens" for distribution to the local homeless. I also give a lot of money to this cause. I don't give money to sidewalk beggars, especially since I've seen them "commuting" on the bus to get to their favorite spot for their daily begging "job."

I would suggest directing your charity towards animals. They at least are truly deserving.

yep, good point.

We feed hundreds through our local community kitchen here and often see many local collage kids come in for a free lunch along with the homeless, yea this used to bother me, figuring that those kids just want to save some money for their big parties, but looking at them along with all the homeless eating there I would guess many may be volunteering their own time in the future to help others. I can't change the way I service others by trying to determine each persons true needs.

Wayne, you are trying to do something good and hopefully you can find a way to do so to help a family who is in greater need.

I'm a real estate broker, and a good portion of my work is investment rental properties (both as an agent and as an owner/manager). The most shocking thing I have come to realize about tenants who receive rental subsidies (Section 8 or the like) is that they all have TVs bigger than mine. They also never seem to run out of cash for cigarettes, beer and take out pizza.

Now of course, they don't *all* live like that, it is an exaggeration...but in my experience we're talking a good 50% or more. And what's the story with all the able bodied people on Social Security disability? I swear to God, I run into so many young and seemingly able-bodied people who are "disabled" it is sickening. I'm sure some of them have legitimate disabilities, but there's no way they are all permanently disabled such that there is no job they could perform. It's patent crap.

I don't know how to fix the situation, but it certainly needs fixing. I do believe in social safety nets for the truly needy, I just think the system is so fraught with abuse that it is ridiculous.

Wayne,

I applaud you and your family for making charitable giving a part of your family celebration of Christmas. I think for the past years, and resolving your feelings about those two families - I'd say let it go. Your hearts were in the right place, and if you believe somebody somewhere is keeping track of these things, your kindness did not go unnoticed. Even if it did not have the impact you hoped on a truly needy family.

But for future years, perhaps you could find a different organization whose holiday match-up program touches families who are more needy than the ones you've found so far, and which as a result, makes for a more satisfying charitable giving experience for your family.

If you got them a computer this year, what's to say someone equally generous didn't get them a big TV last year?

I think I might actually have a smaller TV than you. ;) We have an old 27" CRT television. I barely use it anyway. I believe we bought it in 2000 and that was only to replace my old one that finally died (I'd had it all through college - it didn't even have a remote control, you had to get up and turn the dials in order to tune your channel!)

If you let people disappoint you - it will happen all the time. ALL classes, education levels, professional credentials - whatever. Just got to go with the flow...

This exact same thing happened to my wife, except her boss coerced her into donating her own money for it and she suspects all the families they took stuff to were illegals. She said none of them looked poor in the least and only some of the kids could speak any English at all. Her boss made her whole team do it and each one had to kick in a few hundred $$ of their own money.

Yea, that's a good one! All my neighbors think I am rich because I drive a Porsche:rolleyes:

Wayne,

I would propose that we list some other charities. I know there are food banks that always need help with little things, food kitchens that prepare meals, USO volunteer duty (I like these guys), helping out at some type of homeless shelter , I really don't know all the answers but I bet others on this board could start a list a mile long.

So was that the computer with all our credit card numbers on it? Maybe that explains the TV?;)

I suspect the television was from one of the rent-to-own type companies. They will have it for a few months and then it gets repoed. I also suspect the family wasn't completely rock bottom needy if they were asking for a computer. I do a lot of work as a guardian ad litem for the local juvenile center and come into contact with really needy families. These families are asked to come up with a Christmas wish list and invariably the parents always ask for clothes for themselves and their kids. The kids ask for clothes and sometime things like a basketball. If they ask for a electronic device most times it is a gameboy or a MP3 player so they can have something like their friends have. It can really wrench your heart to read these wish lists. I have never, ever read one where they asked for a computer or a tv.

Personal choice of course, but it's hard for me to find a more worthy charity than one that benefits US soldiers. Let the kids see people that really need help, that will be a positive effect.

Giving away your hard earned capital to seemingly undeserving people help the kids at all, or the recipients IMO.

if you know they have a big TV in the future, you could get them a 19".

take pics.

Oh man. This one is too easy. the answer is .... old folks.

There are a whole bunch of old folks who don't have big TVs. They don't have much of anything but they get by. What they really need most is friendship and family.

If you hooked up with a nice old person or two and brought them into your home for the holiday, they wouldn't want presents. they wouldn't want gifts. In fact nothing could bring them more joy than having sharing your company and being around the little ones. Just talking to them and listening brings them joy. How selfish are we when we can't spare a little bit of our precious time to make someone very happy?
Hunger is sad but pales in comparison to loneliness.
Every year we do this exact same thing. Our pastor has introduced up to a few of them, he does visits with folks who can't always make it to church for whatever reason and he knows who the ones are that are in need of someone showing that they care.
We had one very nice lady who visited us for the last two years but she passed this summer. It was sad but it was very good for the kids to experience. Living life without experiencing it is hollow to be sure.

If only they knew...lots of us are going poor just maintaining them. :D

Good post.

I have a friend who works with hospice. Now that is one great organization. Takes a strong hearted and compassionate human being to, well just be there. The other part is the stories and experiences that are given back for the historical record on such a unique and personal nature.

My first thought was as Shaun mentioned, perhaps last year someone donated their used big screen tv to this family. Come next year, their benefactor is going to walk in their house and see a huge tv and nice computer. These old rear projection units are about 50 cents a pound now.

edit: I got our Pioneer 58" HD set for $325 on craigslist. I do understand your thought process tho.

Wayne, may I humbly suggest figuring out a way to volunteer with a non profit that provides services for people with disabilities? It's a natural fit for your family and many agencies would be happy to connect you with a family who could use support, even if it's a few hours to run errands or have a movie night out. Many people with a disabled child at home are struggling financially or may be struggling with just managing day to day life. I work with a large agency that provides supported living services to disabled adults and clinical services to all age groups. I've also spent many volunteer hours at a place that provides equine therapy to disabled kids. There are many ways to help with your time and $'s and you will know you are helping truly needy people.

I'm a hard working taxpayer and the best I can do is a 36" CRT.

I have helped out serving at a homeless food distribution place. I have to admit I do it for selfish motives. My problems in life seem pretty minor when you see people waiting in line who have very little.

Re: The TV thing IMHO is indicative of what is wrong with America, misplaced priorities and materialism gone wild.

Wayne -
I completely understand where you're coming from. I have a hard time feeling bad for people in my neck of the woods that are having a hard time meeting their mortgage pmts., but have a brand new truck and trailers full of $10K snow machines and dirt bikes in their driveway. (I haven't peeked in any windows to see what their TV status is).

My wife has started a local christmas time tradition (brought from elsewhere) of selling luminaries - small candles inside paper bags that line the streets and driveways in your neighborhood - In just 3 years it has grown from just our neighborhood to town-wide. All proceeds benefit our local Hunger Coalition. It's a nice tradition because it involves EVERYONE in the community as the luminary effect is fantastic when everyone participates.

I don't know if that helps you feel better about the big TV or not, but I'd feel the same as you I think.

Tom

I've probably told the story of the section-8 apartment woman who was looking at an apartment nicer than I could afford and deciding where she would put her plasma TV (back when they were close to $4k).

That day really changed me.

I'd like to suggest Habitat for Humanity. They seem to do a thorough job of screening and accept only those truly in need and who have demonstrated the desire for self-reliance. The families I have worked with have been out there, swinging hammers with the rest of the crew.

Working with animals and the elderly, also superb ideas.

While there's nothing wrong with helping others here, there is no real poverty in the U.S. Go to a developing country if you want to see how good even our "poor" folks have it. When you see your first shanty town, your first legless child beggar, you'll have an idea of what real poverty is and you won't see it here.

specify lower income or minority situation.

I was walking to the store during a visit to my mother recently and noticed a shoebox-sized house with a GIANT flat-screen TV. Now, perhaps my thinking is effectively similar to many of you, but in my mind it doesn't take the form of criticism so much as it takes the form of wondering why. In my mind, for some people, this lifestyle might make sense. Let's say some single guy was a Sheet Metal Worker whose work days are never less than 10 hours and usually six days per week. Outside work, his home life would be preparing for sleep or getting dressed, with Sundays for serious REST. Tiny house. Big TV. Makes sense.

Now, I know that's not what you found. You found a "needy" family. And now you wonder what they really "need." Last night I watched Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith. I had seen it before. Unusual, inspirational story of a man with superhuman tenacity, finally getting the break he needed. I kept thinking "now THAT'S the kind of guy I want to hire."

You're thinking this family needs something other than a handout. I'd agree. And maybe simple job training would not be enough. I can't help thinking that some folks fail to climb out of their hole because they don't see a connection between things like frugality and hard work.....and success. Much has been said in criticism of the "hope" message we've heard lately, but I honestly think that some people have hope (a real expectation, a clear vision, of success) and others simply do not make that connection. They're not so much lazy as they have simply lost hope. They have given up. They lack tenacity because they lack proof, or a belief, in the connection between effort and success.

i dont think you should make any assumptions on where or how that family got what material belongings that they do have.

if you give a gift, and that is what you did, gave a fantastic, generous gift; it should be without questions or strings. it is like giving a homeless person some money, and having them go out and buy crack cocaine, and you getting all pissy about it. once you handed it over, you lose the right to determine how it is spent.

i would have thought the exact same thing. WTF? that is probably why i dont give $$ to things.

help out at a old folks home. great idea. or is there some old person in the neighborhood without many visitors? invite that person over to eat, watch TV, drink booze. i am going to do just that. i have an elderly woman that lives on the corner. i will invite her for stew, and bubbly.

Nobody gets in the door of the powerhouse until he can utter the following (and mean it): "I swear by my life and by my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man nor allow another to live for mine."

wayne, dont feel bad. find another family that is deserving, perhaps a single mom. i never feel good about donating just because of what you have experienced. before you think i/we are cold, we have been foster parents now for about 3 years, we have gone beyond that in trying to actually help the parents( that are trying to help themselves) of the kids. we even took in a homeless mother, got her in a rehab program, she just graduated the first part ( after much trouble) and is moving on the the next phase. we help people we know so we know where our efforts are going.
if you would like to help money wise, we know of a family that has spent all there money (250,000) on their daughters illness. the mother is donating one of her kidneys. my wife got one of our friends(that has worked for us) to open their small clothing store next to ours. the girl is working for gas money and clothes. they have to close the store a lot because they are out of town with the daughter. they back and forth to new york for the medical stuff.
i can encourage an invite and see what size TV they have. we still have CRT's