Another new fee from Kalifornia

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Went to look at a few remote camera monitoring systems to augment the security on my place and lo-and-behold, another new fee courtesy of the People's Republik of Kalifornia! On a sign right under all the cameras, the store was nice enough to explain that a new $8.00 fee for "disposal of electronics containing hazardous materials" was being passed onto the customer.

Unreal. Like we don't pay enough taxes and fees here already. Simply unreal.

slodave · slodave's Garage

So, you wouldn't mind if I came by your place and tossed all my computer junk in your trash? I'd love to sell it to the scrap yard for beer money, but they won't touch it.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Honestly any electronic device thrown in the trash only stays there about 15 minutes before one of the Mexican "junk barges" drives through and picks it up. What they do with the stuff, I've no idea. I've seen them pick up busted televisions, old computers, busted monitors, old hairdryers, you name it.

Point is that the fee should (you'd think) be covered by any one of the gajillion taxes we already pay. I'm sure they're working on a way to invent more new fees like this as we speak.

chapo · 02-17-2009, 09:42 PM

The problem is you pay the fee, but most stores don't take back the used items, so you got to go to the free site that takes them anyway. Motor oil dumping is free, isn't it ? And the store that sold it to you needs to provide recycling for it. Our new budget proposals are a joke. Californians pay the highest taxes on almost everything. the new vehicle license few raise is a joke.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Here's the article that explains how the fee is used.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sptaxprog/ewfaqsgen.htm

BTW Jeff, you've been paying the fee since 2005, it just went up $2 Jan. 1st.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Don't confuse Jeff with details...he's on a roll

slodave · slodave's Garage

My bad, strike what I said... Carry on!

Oh, Maine also created a similar law at the same time and a few other states had/have been considering this type of fee(tax) as well. Looks like B.C. Canada has a similar program.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Just buy it on eBay.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Just buy it on eBay.

That's the plan.

FWIW maybe the fee did exist in some form before - wasn't aware of it. That still doesn't make it right.

The sign simply said "effective Jan. 1, 2009..." so I figured it was an entirely new thing. Even if not, it's still lousy. One more reason to buy stuff elsewhere (like FeeBay).

slodave · slodave's Garage

Why is it not right? Maybe we should just put a halt to technology all together? What is supposed to happen to all the hazardous electronic crap? Collecting gold fillings from dental offices is an actual industry. I asked one of these collectors if they collect computer waste - lots of pure gold to be had. She said she did - until someone caught on and basically sicked the EPA on her.

dd74 · 02-17-2009, 11:33 PM

Some time ago, I read an article in the LA Times where a guy built an incinerator that melted computer parts into some sort of goo he used to power a diesel engine. I think it was an old Mercedes 300D.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Jeff, you're a smart guy. How would you propose to deal with e-waste?

Also, what do you about tires? There are disposal fees when you buy tires as well.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

A couple of major differences are that (1) I haven't heard of this in any other state and (2) I haven't heard of this being done in the past, so why is it all of a sudden an issue and the state is (all of a sudden) unable to cover the cost of disposal with their other revenue streams, necessitating the fee?

With snow tires, the disposal fee has ALWAYS been there. It's established precedent and an expectation when one buys tires - and it's this way in every state (at least every one I've ever bought tires in, which is several). This goes back to as long as I can remember. Not so with electronics stuff.

Also, where does this end? It's analogous to the "fair use tax" being proposed for roads where you'd pay based on your mileage rather than allowing you to drive unlimited miles based on the cost of your registration. Are they going to start adding fees to every single thing that can be bought, based on what the landfill processing load of it is? Milk cartons? Old TV Dinners? Where does it end? If you wanna' do it that way, fine - you can make your case for it (like the "fair use tax"), but the state damn well better refund the taxpayers out of the general fund that has historically included landfill and disposal fees. Hah! Like that'd ever happen. This is double-dipping, plain and simple.

slodave · slodave's Garage

I didn't say anything about snow tires

... The tire disposal policy wasn't 'always' in effect. At some point, people wised up and created the fee, just like with electronics.

The fact is, this is not just a California thing. This stuff is toxic and it needs to be dealt with properly. There is no 'double-dipping'. This stuff can't be dumped in the regular land fills. Do you care about the environment at all?

slodave · slodave's Garage

I have nothing against finding a good deal on the Internet. I'd be disappointed if you'd buy something online for more $$, just to avoid the $8 fee.

EDIT:

From the EPA. http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/materials/ecycling/index.htm

LeRoux Strydom · 02-18-2009, 01:44 AM

A lot of e-waste ends up in 3rd world countries (Africa, China) where they are dismantled for metal recovery under horrendously unsafe conditions for the workers. The remains are simply landfilled. Must be nice if you can do this in some backwater province in China where labour is cheap and plentiful, and the workers don't complain if they get sick and die, with no world press around to report on these excesses.

Google e-waste reclamation in the 3rd world and weep.

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3921

http://gizmodo.com/5079133/60-minutes-reporter-investigates-chinas-e+waste-pits-gets-attacked

http://www.pri.org/business/Global-Development/western-e-waste-africa.html

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

I fully understand the environmental implications of this; the point is whether or not the existing taxes, fees and other government revenue streams are (or should be) adequate to cover the cost of properly disposing of this kind of stuff. Given that CA residents already pay among the highest taxes in the country, I wonder why everyone else is somehow able to absorb those costs and CA isn't. Can we say "misappropriations"? Hmm?

Once again, this seems to be just another example of how CA's "spending spree" politicians raid the revenue streams to fund whatever they damn well please and then when (gee-whiz) there's no money left in the kitty to cover the things it's SUPPOSED to cover, they just make up another new fee, tax, surcharge or assessment in order to make up the shortfall. That's double-dipping. The eventual disposal (proper disposal) of the item is supposed to be covered by sales tax (not to mention the taxes that are paid on that item all through the production/shipping/distribution chain each every step, and the property taxes paid by the importer, distributor, merchant, end-user, etc.) yet somehow, mysteriously in California, it's not. I haven't heard of this being done anywhere else (is it?)

Smells very suspiciously like the end-user is getting boned. Regardless, I'll just buy the silly things on fee-bay and CA can kiss my arse. And no, I won't just chuck 'em in the trash when I'm done with them either - I'll either re-sell them or take them down for recycling like all the other electronics stuff I throw out (plus it's doing my small part to help keep the trash pickers away - albeit unsuccessfully most of the time).

LeRoux Strydom · 02-18-2009, 02:35 AM

Exactly. I guess what I wanted to say was that despite this "fee" being collected in CA, a lot of e-waste still ends up being dumped from sources all over the world.

Having said that, CA does have the 8th largest economy in the world, so all those $8's together must make a sizable sum of money. Is there any way to find out what really happens to your money once you hand it over to the EPA (or whoever takes it from you) ?

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Sure, the state hands it all over to illegals (who promptly wire it to Mexico, never to return to U.S. circulation) and then gives the taxpayers back IOUs on their own tax refunds when they realize there isn't enough to pay their bills.

This idiocy and utter lunacy of this state's inability to exercise responsible spending restraint would be absolute pure comedy gold if it wasn't true. Don't get me started.

I'm sure Todd will agree with that!

Buckterrier · 02-18-2009, 03:28 AM

I'm with you Jeff. And yes I care about the environment, (the main reason I'm against people having a billion friggin' kids, has nothing to do with money). I started a thread last year sometime about the odd, unknown taxes/fees we pay as Americans. And yes where does it stop?

Here in Ct. you of course pay sales tax on your home when you buy it and of course property taxes while owning, (no complaints, kinda-sorta-maybe). But when you sell they gouge you for another 1% of the selling price.

Thanks for getting me started today Jeff!!