Missing boaters...
 

Watching the news, I see that the missing NFL players were in a 21' center console with a single engine and ventured 40-50 miles offshore. I just don't get it :(. We used to go 4-5 miles offshore of Jax, Fl. (to a prime spot) in a similar boat, but I wouldn't have felt safe even at that distance unless there were lots of other boats around (there always was). What happened to common sense? A 21' boat is a canoe in big water. I remember one time deep sea fishing as a kid off of NC, 40 miles out (probably a 50' boat), and in no time we were in "water troughs" looking way up water on each side as it got rough "quick" while we made our way back to shore.

I've been off-shore in sailboats ranging from 22'-39', and I absolutely wouldn't go beyond the sight of land in a boat of that size. They knew the weather was going to get worse either that night or the next day, but still went way off-shore. They didn't even have an EPIRB from what I've read. Bad decision making probably resulting in a tragic outcome. I feel for their loved ones.

"The sea merely lies in wait for the innocent but it stalks the unwary."

I'm still hopeful they will be found.

I read they were anchored. Did they have enough scope? How deep was the water? Also, while their boat should have initial stability, it's ultimate stability is pretty poor.

Sad story

I have nothing to add as it's already been mentioned above, but wow, what were they thinking?

+1. I've done a couple of offshore sailing regattas (30'er), but always within radio contact with lots of other boats around. Even my experience fishing off of NC in rough water was with LOTS of professional charter captains nearby if the crap really hit the fan. The only time I've been "out there" with no other boats around was sailing off of San Diego in a 72'er a few years back...I didn't have any concerns in a boat that size and even then, we weren't "that" far out.

Unfortunate.

I've crapped myself coming out of the Rockaways in a 27 footer. Open ocean is weird. Unnerving even with soft rolling swells.

Sank an 18 ft Hydrostream in Long Island Sound during a squall and we were maybe 100 ft from shore. Scary chit.

Hope they are found.

Hell around here a 21 foot boat would even be considered small on Lake of the Ozarks. No way would I go out to sea on one.

What a shame. People who venture out on the water need to have more respect for how the ocean can turn on you.
Ive been on the water most of my life. Also a licensed captain. It amazes me, no matter how many times I go out, how many "boaters" I see out there that have no business being out on the water. You see so many putting themselves in ridiculously dangerous situations. I have no problem contacting the CG or local marine police and notifiyng them about an unsafe situation.

Even with all the boater safety courses and training that are available, there is still no training for common sense.:(

+1

A 21 footer is just a river/lake pleasure boat.

Would anyone go out into the desert 40 -50 miles in a dune buggy with-out all the extra provisions against the elements?

Yup, I had a 20 ft I/O and I took it sometimes out of Sandy Hook Bay, which is not even high sea. It is incredible how a boat that feels large on flat water can feel tiny on choppy water. I would never have ventured too far from the shore with that size boat.

I can't imagine they'll find the other guys after this much time in the water.

As a retired Navy helo pilot, I have a few rescues of boaters in distress. I also know a bunch of Coast Guard helo pilots. The general theme of those rescued is fairly consistent: More enthusiasm than readiness and a lack of situational awareness.

A few Sea Stories:

As a white water rafter in the '70's, I was the head boatman on a trip down the North Fork of the American River. Our put-in was a place called Chili Bar. It was early in the season and there was a good snow pack: the river was very high and very cold.

We saw a man was about to launch in an aluminum canoe with his son...little to no flotation, Mae West style life vests, no wet suits.

We tried to talk him out of it. He said he knew what he was doing. He died less than a mile down the river. His son lived because a group that left before my float made a very difficult rescue.

Sometimes it is best to go home and teach your son a lesson about restraint.

Yesterday:

12 inches of snow on Sunday, a few more inches with high winds (snow drifts) Monday morning. I am not going anywhere.

A friend calls me...can you help? There are five cars stuck on our rural road, one of them, a minivan, has locked his keys in his van. The snow drifts are at least two feet.

I get all the tow chains, ropes shovels I own and head out. I find the clique of stuck cars and my buddy and I begin the task of pulling them out. The task is way above our pay grade so we call my other neighbor who has a big John Deere tractor with four wheel drive.

I get the first few folks out and they turn around and head home...the easy part. I also take the 400lb guy in the minivan back to his house to get his keys.

He is so large that he can barely get into my truck and then cannot latch the seat belt. During the fifteen minute trek to his cottage, I ask him why he was venturing out in his minivan in a winter storm.

"I needed cigarettes."

We got him out. No cigarettes for him.

Never underestimate the willingness of some to apply the wrong tool or minivan to a tough job with severe consequences.

I hope these young men are found. I hope the rescuers return home safely.

Well, I live in the area - and I can tell you first hand that mother nature is not one to mess with. Personally - I have been out 24.8 miles in my 19 foot Pursuit. I only did it on a day that was flat calm - that I teamed up with a buddy boat = - my UHF was tested - my battery was new, my two bilge pumps were new (and tested) my flares and ditch bag were at hand - and the water was a balmy 74 degrees. Funny thing was I saw a dot on the horizon - it was a guy in a 16 foot bassboat - low gunnels - people are crazy.

Even then I watched the weather with intent and took no chances.

These guys were foolish to venture out in such conditions. There was a forecasted strong cold front scheduled to come through - and a 21 foot boat is to small for that far out. Gulf temp is in the low 60's - you can not survive long in the water.

I feel for the families of the missing boaters

http://snap.tbo.com/photos/index.php?id=2237063

Probably the only survivor.

Jeremy, do you think they were headed for middle ground? That is like 50 miles out isn't it? I know the fishing is good out there, but to go out that far in that boat in that weather isn't worth a few keeper grouper to me.

21 ft? Jeez my kayak is 12. Yup the sea is not to be played lightly. Flights of angels to them both. Or is it three?

I was taking a 57 footer from San Diego to the Bay area in the late '80s with two other guys and we hit a whale during a storm off the Central coast.
We were able to get a partial distress call off, had a Coast Guard approved life raft, were dressed properly, had flares and were only 10 miles offshore but we still almost didn't make it.

My 15 minutes:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1.../whaletale.jpg

Wow...did the whale strike break off your keel? It's great that you guys were prepared.

All former collage football players and two are current NFL players. Young, strong and stupid. Real mean don't need no stinkin' life vest, radios, weather reports etc, etc, etc.

BTW- The two white kids - I sorta know them and we have some mutual friends. They have come to a friend's Memorial Day party for the last few years that my family and I have gone to. Both of them played dodge ball in the front yard with about 30 kids from 6-13 years old. The surviver is a 6'-2" chiseled kid that everybody likes.
Sad, very sad.

17' sea kayak here and much more sea worthy then that thing. I also feel for the families. Not very bright though. :(

When I had my 20 foot cabin cruiser, I was way too nervous to go off shore any distance.

We went out under the Golden Gate one morning. The fog came up and we had near zero visibility after we were about a quarter mile past the bridge. It just disappeared from view.

We were left with the sound of the waves on the nearby rocks, our compass and the knowledge that we were in the middle of the big ship's channel.

We went West and the fog cleared. We were near 20 or more others who were salmon fishing, too.

We stayed within sight of land.
I never went offshore again.

The guy that had the boat before me would routinely take trips to the Farralon islands all the time.

I sold that boat.


KT

Sad to hear this. Let's pray they find them.

We lost 3 boaters last year in our lake; one was a client of mine.
The family was devastated and they only found his shoes; floating.

Very dangerous, especially without the respect for it.

The vessel was "unsinkable". That in itself was probably the driving force in confidence building and taking on the challenge. Regardless, an unsinkable vessel handles no better in a rough sea or in a broaching condition then any other vessel. It simply stays bouyant even if filled with water or flipped over.

In college we used 13-foot Boston Whaler's to collect specimens in the inlet and the ICW and we knew the Whaler was "unsinkable". That lended to being a tad more adventurous and daring even though if you fell off you would land most of the time on your feet on the muddy bottom!!

I can understand that thinking they were "unsinkable" led to the offshore adventure even more, BUT they ventured out way too far and in harms way.

What bothers me more is that they went way too far with only one engine and no kicker as a spare, which is a necessary item for any true offshore fisherman who knows that the reserve power might be a life saver if needed.

In this case it was a very unforgiving sea that overwhelmed them. Sad indeed.

:(

I have that argument with lots of folks - unsinkable is always better than bobbing around the gulf with just a lifejacket on - but if you've ever tried to climb the bottom of a boat when it's flipped over - you will care less and less that It's "unsinkable". No easy feat in calm weather - I can't imagine in 6-8 foot waves.

The other item is water temperature. Although we don't get the frigid cold of some northern states - we still get water that cools into the 50's and lower 60's. About 5 years ago I rescued a kayaker at the request of the sherriff's office. (they had a delay in getting their boat out, mine was in the back of the house) He had fallen off - had a life jacket - but the water was upper 50's and hypothermia had started to set in.

When we got to him - about a mile into the bay - he was babbling - big guy - probably 220 - and his legs were stiff - he couldn't get them onto my ladder, couldn't make them work. Luckily the officer with me was strong - I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck - she grabbed him by the arms and we hauled him aboard. He was scared to death.

Mother Nature - you don't mess with her.

And yes T-bird - my guess is they were headed to either the middlegrounds or one of the live springs that's just past the middlegrounds. Good grouper (although the season is closed) great amberjack fishing there.

The Coast Guard has called off the search.

I pray it was quiet.

Over three years on ships on the water and the fear of their fate was never far from my mind. The sea is mindless and merciless.

God speed to the young men.

Sad, very sad. Too young to die that way. Kind of creepy in a way as I, like Jeremy, have fished those same waters many times when I lived in Clearwater.

Meh. 40' Go-fast boats are where it's at kids. As long are you stay in the runs between Havana and the keys...

This was a power boat so the keel doesn’t hang down like a sailboat. The whale hit us head on below the waterline and stove in a 4’ piece.

In my situation the water temp was in the 50s. The life raft was one those little round ones with a canopy and a single layer floor made of Hypalon (I think). A few hours into it we had all removed our lifejackets to put between our asses and the floor because of the cold.
When the Coast Guard cutter got to us we were all too stiff to climb the Jacob’s ladder by ourselves.

I think the saddest part about the NFL guys is that if they’d had an EPIRB, it would have activated automatically when the boat capsized and they probably would’ve been picked up in a few hours.

I'm always amazed at the size of the boats on the lake of the ozarks. Must have lots of dudes with little pee pee's there. You get bigger boats there than you do on Tampa Bay.

BTW - A bigger boat would probably have not have helped these guys much -

Data from the middlegrounds buoy

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/plot_met.ph...time_label=EST

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/plot_wave.p...time_label=EST

well, the NFL guys are outstanding at their respective positions, but they probably relied on the skipper of the boat

or was the boat skipper one of the NFL guys? I thought there was another guy lost who was not in the NFL, and that's why I say the skipper is the responsible party.

I grew up boating on the south shore of Long Island... My dad was an avid Tournament fisherman. We skipped up and down the NE from Hatteras to Gloucester, Nantucket, Montauk and local (Freeport, Babylon) Shark, Billfish and Tuna tournaments.. Done overnights at Hudson Canyon, Fish Tails, Coimbra...

I respect everything the sea throw at ya... I've also taken a swim in the gulfstream when we needed to change a prop 80 miles offshore...

After my dad passed, and we sold the Rybovich... I downsized and picked up a 21 Grady w/225 Yamaha hanging off the stern...

Now I never ran 80 mile offshore with the Grady.. I did take some long runs HA buoy for yellowfin etc.. Out to Orient then to The Race for bass...

The race is quite close to shore, however the whole Long Island Sound empties through it... 6-8 foot swell just from the tide..

Just need to keep your head and be prepared... When things got hairy on my boat.. I put on a life vest..

Also I had epirb on my lil Grady

Sorry about these guys though

One of the NFL players owned the boat. The search was called off at 6:30 our time.

Here is a link to the local news coverage....

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/mar/03/rescued-boaters-details-helpful-search-others/news-metro/

I have been there... 30ft seas.. the sky dark grey... and the water black like oil... wind howling.... even in a 3-400ft ship it scared the hell outta me.... I was a master helmsman, and had to try and keep her on course... I want to sail a sailboat into the blue water... mostly in the carribean, but in the back of my mind,
I know what the sea can do.... this keeps me a little hesitant, eventhough I know people do it safely every day..... eperb and gps is a must.... I dont think I could even remeber how to shoot the stars or a sun line today if I had to...... When you are in a large ship, and the seas are so rough that your prop is coming out of the water and the hull is slamming into the water with tremendous force, you know you are in deep sheit..... my prayers are with the lost three and their families...

Geez even drug runners use dual engines etc...
Natural selection is a cruel beast sometimes.. No way in hell I would ever be 50 miles out in a little boat,, I get nervous on cruise ships.. Give me a mountain top anyday...

The surviving witness said they both had their vests on after the capsization.

I wonder if the sharks got 'em. Even if they died, with vests on they should still be floating around out there somewhere, and probably would've been found.

So what's the minimum reasonably safe size for going out that far in a boat?

50 feet?