Kids n Karate

[Noah930]

Anyone have kids that take karate classes? Just wondering how much they cost.

My wife won a trial package of classes through some raffle or auction. We had our 3 yr-old try the class for the first time. He loved it. Admittedly, it was a small class. My wife tells me there were only half a dozen kids there, and that it's a class geared towards the pre-schooler. So, at the end of the class, she asked the sensei how much classes cost. Does $230 for 8 classes (once per week for 8 weeks) sound reasonable? That's almost $30 per class, for a 45-minute class. Yowza.

[red-beard]

Sounds very good for the instructor!

[Noah930]

Well, I don't think the guy is making a killing, either. 6 kids at $30 each still only comes out to $180 per hour. He's got to pay for his overhead, too. At the same time, $30/hr is a lot IMO for a kid activity. Just wondering what other places charge, as looking online most dojos with websites don't list any pricing information.

[nostatic]

Be very careful and do research. Prices are all over the map. Some places have contracts and are essentially "belt mills". Think scientology. I think a typical "reasonable" price is more along the lines of $100/mo and that should include the option of a couple of classes a week.

For reference, I pay $85/mo for my classes, and that is 2 meetings/wk.

If they want you to sign a contract, walk out. If they want you to pay up front for multiple months, walk out. If they are focused on "how much time it takes to get to black belt", walk out.

imho 3 years old is a tad young, but it varies with the kid and the school.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Anyone have kids that take karate classes? Just wondering how much they cost.

My wife won a trial package of classes through some raffle or auction. We had our 3 yr-old try the class for the first time. He loved it. Admittedly, it was a small class. My wife tells me there were only half a dozen kids there, and that it's a class geared towards the pre-schooler. So, at the end of the class, she asked the sensei how much classes cost. Does $230 for 8 classes (once per week for 8 weeks) sound reasonable? That's almost $30 per class, for a 45-minute class. Yowza.

That's about normal for a good school.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

That's about normal for a good school.

Really? How many schools have you visited or priced in Los Angeles?

[m21sniper]

In Philly.

Please also note that i said 'good' school. You find a school with a prestigious/well known instructor and the prices can easily double or more again.

[LeeH]

We pay $108/month with no contract at a great school. Classes are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturdays for our daughter's belt level with a different focus for each class - basics, forms, sparring, etc.

Be aware that there are some black belt factories out there.

[slodave]

Kreese: We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy.
Kreese: [sseing that Johnny is distracted] What is the problem Mr. Lawrence?

Kreese: What do we study here?
Karate Class: THE WAY OF THE FIST SIR.
Kreese: And what is that way?
Karate Class: STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR.
Kreese: I can't hear you.
Karate Class: STRIKE FIRST. STRIKE HARD. NO MERCY SIR.

Kreese: Bobby - I want him out of commission.
Bobby: But Sensei, I can beat this guy!
Kreese: I don't want him beaten.
Bobby: But I'll be disqualified!
Kreese: [icily] Out of commission.

Kreese: Sweep the leg.
[Johnny stares at him in shock]
Kreese: Do you have a problem with that?
Johnny Lawrence: No, Sensei.
Kreese: No mercy.

Kreese: [at the Cobra Kai dojo] Class, we have visitors. Fall in behind me. Hai!
[approaches Daniel and Miyagi, then speaks to Miyagi]
Kreese: I hear you jumped some of my students last night.
Miyagi: Afraid facts mixed up.
Kreese: You calling Mr. Lawrence a liar?
Miyagi: No call no one nothing.
Kreese: What are you here for, old man?
Miyagi: Come ask leave boy alone.
Kreese: What's the matter, the boy can't take care of his own problems?
Miyagi: One to one problem, yes. FIVE to one problem, too much ask anyone.
Kreese: Is that what's bothering you? The odds? Well, we can fix that. Feel like matching, Mr. Lawrence?
Johnny Lawrence: Yes, sensei!
Miyagi: No more fighting.
Kreese: This is a karate dojo, not a knitting class. You don't come into my dojo, drop a challenge and leave, old man. Now you get your boy on the mat, or you and I will have a major problem.
Miyagi: Too much advantage. Your dojo.
Kreese: Name a place.
Miyagi: Tournament.
Kreese: [laughs] You've got real nerve, old man. Real nerve. But I think we can accomodate you. Can't we, Mr. Lawrence?
Johnny Lawrence: Yes, sensei.
Kreese: Fall in.
[Johnny turns and leaves]
Miyagi: Ask one more small request.
Kreese: Make it fast.
Miyagi: Ask leave boy alone to train.
Kreese: You're a pushy little bastard, ain't ya? But I like that. I like that! All right. No one touches the prima donna until the tournament. Is that understood?
[class responds with "YES SENSEI!"]
Kreese: But if you don't show, it's open season on him... and you.

Johnny: [Kreese and Johnny are arguing in the parking lot after the All-Valley Tournament] Come on, that's not fair! I got second place!
John Kreese: Second place? Second place is no place! You're off the team!
Johnny: That sucks! I did my best!
John Kreese: What?
Johnny: I said I did my best!
John Kreese: You're nothing! You lost! You're a loser!
Johnny: No, YOU'RE the loser, man!
John Kreese: Oh I'm the loser huh?
[grabs trophy from Johnny and breaks it, sending pieces flying]
John Kreese: Now who's the loser?
Johnny: You know, you're really sick man!
John Kreese: [grabs and puts Johnny in choke hold... Bobby runs up but Kreese swats him away] How does second place feel now?
Tommy: Come on, he can't breathe!
Bobby: Sensei, please... you're hurting him! He's sorry, he really is, OK?
Mr. Miyagi: [walking up to Kreese] Let him go.
Tommy: Yeah, Mr. Miyagi's right! Let him go!
[Kreese backhands Tommy]
John Kreese: [hissing] Beat it, slope... or you're NEXT!
Mr. Miyagi: I say, LET HIM GO!
John Kreese: [breaks hold and frees a gasping Johnny... Kreese strikes at Miyagi twice, breaking both hands in the process by slamming his fists through two car windows... Miyagi forces Kreese to his knees]
Mr. Miyagi: "Mercy is for the weak... when man confronts you, he is enemy...
[Kreese is staring fearfully at Miyagi, remembering his own words]
Mr. Miyagi: ...enemy deserve no mercy.

[alf]

From my personal experience, the best non-govt sponsored martial arts instructors teach non-profit. When people teach MA for a living, compromises are made. Look into Kendo and Judo, those are pretty much the only 2 big MAs in the US that are still non profit. Community centers also tend to have non-profit instructors. You could figure it out pretty quick when you find out that they have real day jobs.

Find a good instructor, that is more important than the style/art.

Edit: Kendo and Judo instructors will not usually take 3YOs. that is too young to start MA in a formal setting. But if the MA teacher is doing it for profit they most likely will make the compromise.

[masraum]

Teacher: Approach, students. Close the circle at the feet of the master. You have come to me asking that I be your guide along the path of Ti Kwan Leep. But, be warned: To learn its ways, you must learn the ways of your own soul. Let us meditate upon this wisdom now. So: Aaaaaaooooommm......
Student1 (Ed Gruberman): Uh, sir! Sir! (oo! oo!) Sir!
Teacher: Who disturbs our meditation, as a pebble disturbs the stillness of the pond?
EG: Me! Ed Gruberman?
Teacher: E-Ed Gruberman?
EG: Yeah, uh, no disrespect or nothin', but, like, uh, how long is this gonna take?
Teacher: Ti Kwan Leep is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.
EG: So like, what, an hour or so?
Teacher: No, no, we have not even begun upon the path. Ed Gruberman, you must learn patience.
EG: Yeah yeah yeah, patience. How long will that take?
Teacher: Time has no meaning. To a true student, a year is as a day.
EG: A YEAR??? I wanna beat people up right now! I got the pajamas! Hah woo yah ooomm!
Teacher: "Beat people up"...?
EG: Yeah! Just show me all those nifty moves so I can start trashing bozos! That's all I came here for! YO ASTA STA STA!!! Pretty good, ey?
Teacher: The only use of Ti Kwan Leep is self-defense. Do you know who said that? Ki Lo Ni, the great teacher.
EG: Yeah? Well the best defense is a good offense, you know who said that? Mel, the cook on "Alice".
Teacher: No, um...Ti Kwan Leep is the wine of purity, not the vinegar of hostility. Meditate upon this truth with us. Aaaaoooommm...
EG: Listen, shrimp! All this fag talk is really starting to piss me off. Now, are you gonna show me some fancy moves, or am I gonna start wapin' the walls with you?
Teacher: Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep. Approach me that you might see.
EG: All right! Finally some action!
Teacher: Observe closely, class. Boot to the Head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
EG (drunkenly): Owww! You booted me in the head!
Teacher: You are lucky, Ed Gruberman. Few novices experience so much of Ti Kwan Leep so soon.
EG (quietly, to himself): Ow, oh, my head!
Teacher: Now we continue. Aaaaaoooommmm...
EG: Hey! Hey, I wasn't ready! Come and get me now shorty, huh? Come on, are ya chicken?
Teacher: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
EG (again, drunkenly): Oww! Okay, now I'm ready, okay, now, come on, try it now.
Teacher: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
EG: Mind if I just lie down here for a minute?
Teacher: Now class, we shall return to our...
Student2: Master?
Teacher: It is wrong to tip the vessel of knowledge, student.
Student2: Many apologies, master. But I feel Ed Gruberman is not wholly wrong.
Teacher: What do you mean?
Student2: I want to boot some head, too.
Teacher: Have you learned nothing from the lesson of Ed Gruberman?
Student2: Yes, master. I have learned two things. First, that anger is a weapon only to one's opponent.
Teacher: Very good.
Student2: And secondly, get in the first shot. Boot to the head. (SH-ZOOMP!)
Teacher: You missed.
Student2: Uh, yeah. Well...
Teacher: You too shall be honored to learn a lesson...
Student2: You don't have to, you know. I-I gotta be going...
Teacher: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
Student2 : (agonizing pain) Oyyy oy oyyyy.... Oh....
Teacher: Can anyone tell us what lesson has been learned here?
Student3: Uh, yes, master. Not a single one of us could defeat you.
Teacher: You gain wisdom, child.
Student3: So we'll hafta gang up on ya! Get 'im guys!


(Teacher throws many 'Boot to the head!s' and 'SH-ZOOMP!s'.
There are many people groaning in pain.)
Teacher: And now class, let us rejoin the mind to the body and gaze into the heart of the candle in meditation.
Unison: Aaaaaoooommm....
Teacher: Very good, class.

[JavaBrewer]

We pay $54/month and my son can attend up to 5 evening classes per week...or 1 thanks to a loaded school & baseball schedule We did sign a 1 year agreement but if we decide to bail early than we only pay for for the time spent at the full (non-agreement) price of $100/month.

[Jim Richards]

3 years old is too young, IMO. 6 or 7 year olds are considerably less squirrely and are more apt to follow the structure of the classes. A 3 year old is just there to play.

I wouldn't sign up for any long term deal, unless it's like what Dave's described.

[nostatic]

I tend to agree that 3 is too young. I found that with my son even 6 or 7 was too young but I've known other kids where that age is OK. I'm a "fun nazi" though so I don't believe in being really harsh with kids that age in sports or MA - it should be about fun and play with some bit of discipline and learning mixed in. But ymmv.

The kids classes around here could be anywhere from $50-250/mo. The cost was not indicative of the quality of the instructor or program imho. As mentioned above there are people who do this for a living that are pretty much in it to make money. There also are others who are "trained" but frankly I wouldn't send my kid to their school. MA attracts an interesting mix of people, but one of the groups that seem to be represented are thugs who like to fight and MA "legitimizes" that for them. All martial, no art. But again, different strokes...however as a parent you are responsible for the safety and what your kid is learning. Just as you check his homework and will go to baseball practice, you should get some understanding of the MA he/she is studying and what the teacher is really selling to the kids. While the Karate Kid is "Hollywood", sadly it is based in some pretty accurate representations of some schools. I've seen some very mean-spirited "sensei"s over the years...they just don't get it.

[notmytarga]

My son just turned 6 and has been doing Kenpo Karate classes for 6 months or so. He recently added his second orange stripe to his yellow belt.

Pricing goes like this: $65/mo for classes - he goes to 1-2 each week - but there are 3 for which he qualifies. $15 for 30 min private lessons and the belt/stripe tests.

He hasn't wanted to go on Thursdays because they spar and he has to wear a cup...... My older daughters never wanted to miss sparring days. Saturday at 10 AM its all kids, all belt levels. This allows the kids to see where they are heading and it's nice to see them all helping each other. We were told that one belt a year was a reasonable pace if the student is motivated.

The school is staffed by a variety of students/instructors led by the owner, Scott Halsey. He is 5th degee black belt. He has been doing the school his whole adult life. Very accomplished, gentle and modest man. For the kids they make it fun, but expect them to learn what they are teaching. I haven't seen much higher level stuff, but the higher belts have incredible form.

Here is a recent article about Scott Halsey:
http://www.enjoymagazine.net/articles/article/id_cmsarticles/224

His amazing ability is teaching kids - and fostering those who chose to move along to higher levels. At some classes there are 30 kids - only he can manage them effectively, it's entertaining to watch. With a helper he has 25-30 kids, 4-7 years old cooperating with techniques etc. He knows all their names. Likely 250 or more students total.

He doesn't try to have this many kids - they just come because he offers a lot for the cost and makes it enjoyable for them.

Ask around where people are bring their kids. Hopefully there will be agreement about a good place.

[gr8fl4porsche]

We have not done Karate yet, but my daughter takes all kinds of classes, activities, sports, etc. $12-15 per 45-60 minutes is what we usually pay.

[tc-sacto]

Our City dept. of Parks and Recreation offers very reasonoble rates. I started my kids at 3. They loved it...the class mostly did gymnastics, stretching, some karate intro and discipline. Now at 5, they are getting into more of the actual Karate/discipline aspect
Tots: 3-5 $45 1x per week
Dragons 5-6 $45 2x per week
Jrs 6-15 $72 3 days per week
Adults 15+ $73 3 days per week

[Dixie]

My wife tells me there were only half a dozen kids there, and that it's a class geared towards the pre-schooler. So, at the end of the class, she asked the sensei how much classes cost. Does $230 for 8 classes (once per week for 8 weeks) sound reasonable?

GOOD GOD, NO!!!!

Item one: Interval
They only have class once a week? "Danger, danger, Will Robertson!" No one can make progress with only one class a week.

Item two: Age
It's a bit like learning to read. Many parents are thrilled that they've spent countless time and money to teach Johnny to read before first grade. And yet, all studies show that statistically he'll be dead-even with all other children by third grade. My point? Wait until the child is at least in the first grade. At that point he'll have the cognitive skills, a bit of an attention span, and better motor skills. At this point just do pretend Karate.

Item three: Cost
$230 for eight weeks??? Must be all those social programs they need to fund in California. I pay $20 a month for my son to take Tae Kan Doe. That's for two one-hour classes each week. I then pay an extra $10 a month for my classes. Those classes are two one-hour classes a week as well. (The instructor is a nationally ranged 5th degree black belt.)


Item four: Gratuitous pic
My seven-year-old son is up for his yellow belt this month

[Noah930]

Thanks for the responses, all. Even the movie dialogue.

FWIW, I think the price is a bit...steep. I didn't attend that first class, but apparently my son (according to my wife) loved it and was very focused/attentive. It also helped that two of his good friends were in the class, as well.

I understand that it's a bit early. The kids are actually almost all 4 years-old. Still early for real martial arts training. So I look at it as more of an activity, as opposed to serious Chuck Norris-to-be training. Part of the reason why I think it's a bit spendy. I understand the concept of the money-making, belt-promoting mill. Obviously, not into it.

I took ju-jitsu in high school. Actually had it offered through school, so I never (directly) paid for it. I agree that the once per week schedule is a bit limited. There's also a Saturday class, but it's not specifically geared towards pre-schoolers, so I don't think that that's worthwhile. Sadly, my sensei passed away at an early age, otherwise I'd take my son to him (when the time is right). Heck, geographically I live closer to high school, now, than I did while I was a kid growing up. Would be kinda neat to see my childhood dojo's patch on my kid's gi.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by nostatic

however as a parent you are responsible for the safety and what your kid is learning. Just as you check his homework and will go to baseball practice, you should get some understanding of the MA he/she is studying and what the teacher is really selling to the kids. While the Karate Kid is "Hollywood", sadly it is based in some pretty accurate representations of some schools. I've seen some very mean-spirited "sensei"s over the years...they just don't get it.

+1 I shopped for a couple weeks before deciding on the instructor/school. Initially I was interested in Kung-Fu but the school I checked out was very ahh...Cobra Kai 'sweep the leg' ... it was also the most expensive @ $250/month including 4 private lessons/month and all the bandages we need. Ahhh...pass.

The program we did go for is run by Sensi Jeff Brown and is a very kid friendly, positive, and fun school. The style is a mix of Japanese Karate and Korean Tae Kwon Do. My son started off with a bang but now that baseball is here (4x week practice) we have struggled to find time to go.