Who knows telescopes?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

1) All telescopes are $500+ telescopes, no matter what the price tag says. just as all 911SCs are $20K cars once you get done with them. The $200 telescope will need $300 of extras to fulfill an interested astronomer, while the $500 telescopes come with enough bells and whistles (I'm talking eyepieces, books, notes, flashlight, maps, etc).

Most of this type of scope these days come with 1 or 2 Eye Pieces. I think the XT6 comes with a 25mm Plossl. You'll also want a 2x barlow to go with that. I think you can pick up a 2x Barlow for $40-50. You will want some accessories (either the included Eye Piece and a Barlow or another Eye Piece). You don't have to have a book since you can get much of the same sort of info online or in free software, but I do really like the "Turn Left at Orion" book.

2) A telescope is worse than useless if it's too heavy/awkward to use, or if the batteries drain too fast, or if you can't quite find a stool the right height to see through the eyepieces, or any of a million other things. It becomes VERY easy to never take it out again in the cold and the dark if it's not 100% comfortable and fun.

Very true.

4) Don't get a CCD. just don't. That's cheating, and they're actually more of a pain than anyone can imagine.

Definitely save astrophotography for way later.

5) Every amateur will tell you to get binocs first, but very few of them did (just like we ALL say "get a PPI!" but we don't always do it ourselves). Take that info for what it's worth.

I wouldn't say get a binocular first. I'd say get one too. If I was going to say get one first, I'd want something big like a 15x70, but for something that big you need a tripod, and those aren't cheap (kind of like buying 2 small scopes really) Even the cheap 10x50 bushnells that I use are difficult to keep steady. I'd definitely recommend getting some though. You'd be amazed at how much more you can see with the 10x50s that I use than with your naked eye. They really help when trying to find things, and sometimes I just scan the sky looking for stuff. I've found some really neat stuff that way. I'd almost consider them a must have with a scope.

6) It's very VERY easy to damage a telescope to the point of it being garbage without really doing much to it. Buying used equipment sight unseen is VERY bad news. 90% of the used telescopes out there were impulse buys that sat in the closet getting knocked around until the wife threw a fit and someone had to sell. The other 10% are amateur upgrading, and are excellent buys. Can you always tell which is which on E-bay/Craigslist? Neither can I

I heard folks saying you could get a deal by buying a used scope. AstroMart is a popular place. I've also heard about folks that bought a scope that needed lots of work and were basically junk.

When someone would ask me directly, I'd say this:
#1 choice, 7x50 binocs, one or more of the books mentioned in posts above, and a star map like this (this map kicks so much butt, I LOVED mine):
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=maps_and_charts/~pcategory=accessories/~product_id=04150

Again, I think a binocular is a must have. 7x50 is an odd size (but there's a specific reason behind that size) but a 7x35 or 10x50 either will be a nice addition

#2 choice, a 6 inch dobsonian with the book and map as above, a 32mm eyepiece (plossl at least), and a variable brightness red LED flashlight.

I bought an 8" dob. I'd think that 6", 8" or 10" dob would be a good starting point for anyone.

#3 choice is a wide field refractor like this:
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=optical_tube/~pcategory=telescopes/~product_id=09947
on a basic Bogen tripod, with the same above accessories, and 2 or 3 40mm to 50mm eyepieces for big wide sweeping views. Again, I had one of these, and it was my main photography scope. I took some great ultra-wide field film images by piggybacking it on whatever larger telescope was around at the time.

For a beginner, I prefer a camera type tripod (up/down, left/right) over a tracking mount. A newbie doesn't have a deep enough sense of the astronomical coordinates, and mucking around with them will just make things more complex. An easy to use camera tripod and a wide field scope is fun to slowly sweep areas of the sky, catching things and they go by. You'll see more nebula by wandering aimlessly than you will be hunting down coordinates, trying to align the scope, and then finding that you got something slightly wrong and are lost in the sky.

I actually had/have and used a similar scope for about 6 months before I got my dobsonian. I had a 100mm short tube. It was nice, I liked it. I could fit all of Pleiades in the field of view. I also used it on a photo tripod. I very sturdy photo tripod. The biggest problem with the photo tripod was that you'd have to move the scope around to find something and then lock it down. Invariably, it moves a bit after you lock it down. The photo style head made it kind of a pain to use.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by masraum

...I wouldn't say get a binocular first.

Me neither. They're like pants; you should always get them in pairs.

[lm6y]

Well, which one did you get?

[cgarr]

I am going to get this one: 6" dobsonian for $250 but its out of stock till April.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by cgarr

I am going to get this one: 6" dobsonian for $250 but its out of stock till April.

There's an 8 inch Orion in the for sale section of that local club I linked, for $200. Go look at that one. 8 inch dobs are significantly bulkier than 6 inchers, but they're easy for an adult to setup in the yard or pack in the back seat of a car.

At least go look at it, and see what you're getting into as far as size, weight, etc. Then buy it, since an 8 inch dob for $200 from a local amateur is about 1000x better than a 6 inch dob for $250, sight unseen, and with a waiting list

[cgarr]

Hey, Thanks, I have a call into him so I can take a look at it! That would be great to get something local, no shipping, tax etc....

[masraum]

Cool, that comes with a better finder than the 6" and 2 Eye Pieces. That's an improvement. Make sure it also includes whatever was included for collimation. I'm sure it will.

The included eye pieces would give you 48x and 120x. If you added a 2x Barlow, you'd have 96x and 240x. You'll like the 240x on stuff like the moon, Saturn and Jupiter especially.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Hey, Thanks, I have a call into him so I can take a look at it! That would be great to get something local, no shipping, tax etc....

Did you ever get to look at that scope?

[cgarr]

Originally Posted by masraum

Did you ever get to look at that scope?

Go tonight to take a look...

[masraum]

cool, hopefully it's a keeper.

[cgarr]

Well I got it. Everything looked hardly used at all, a bit dusty but not bad. It came with all the manuals, a 10 and 25mm eyepiece, 90 degree finder scope and a LaserMate Collimator. She got her birthday present a bit early because it was so nice out tonight and Dad wanted to use it too. Saturn was very clear tonight along with her moons, sure a lot nicer than the one I had 40 years ago!! This is going to be a lot of fun!

[TerryH]

Congrats! Enjoy it for many years. I've been checking locally for something similar. I've outgrown my little Meade 60mm refractor. Pictures of the next Galileo and the scope?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Well I got it. Everything looked hardly used at all, a bit dusty but not bad. It came with all the manuals, a 10 and 25mm eyepiece, 90 degree finder scope and a LaserMate Collimator. She got her birthday present a bit early because it was so nice out tonight and Dad wanted to use it too. Saturn was very clear tonight along with her moons, sure a lot nicer than the one I had 40 years ago!! This is going to be a lot of fun!

Out Freakin' Standing!!

Happy Birthday! and Happy Good Daddy Day! (since you both got a toy).

Did you check out Orion's nebula? That's one not to miss this time of year. And if you have a decent view to the west you may even be able to see Andromeda's Galaxy (not nearly as exciting as the other two. If you get out just as the sun is setting you can also get a good view of Venus as it chases the sun into the sea.

Awesome! If you haven't already, check out the forums over at www.cloudynights.com. They are a great resource.

You'll be very happy with the 8", much more so than you would have with the 6" or something smaller. The 8" will collect 73% more light than a 6" which is good because the main point of a telescope is to collect light. The more light, the more you can see.

The laser collimater will do a good job, it's what I use, but make sure you collimate it first. There should be 2 really tiny allen screws around the middle of the collimater. You'll want to point the laser at a wall a long way off in something that acts as a base where you can rotate the collimater. When you rotate the collimater, the laser point should stay put on the wall. Chances are, the point (which may actually be a small "-") will wobble a bit. Use the Allen screws to adjust the position of the laser point until when you rotate the collimater, the point stays put on the wall.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by masraum

The laser collimater will do a good job, it's what I use, but make sure you collimate it first. There should be 2 really tiny allen screws around the middle of the collimater. You'll want to point the laser at a wall a long way off in something that acts as a base where you can rotate the collimater. When you rotate the collimater, the laser point should stay put on the wall. Chances are, the point (which may actually be a small "-") will wobble a bit. Use the Allen screws to adjust the position of the laser point until when you rotate the collimater, the point stays put on the wall.

Hell, let them play
He'll learn the minutia of collimators and cleaning mirrors and all that crap when the time comes

Cgarr, when you need that mirror recoated, talk to me. I can drive over to Tucson and do it. Only $10K and 5 day turn around, but it'll be the best damned mirror you've ever seen

[FrinkFrog]

Is this one any kind of a deal? Found on my local Craigslist.

http://chautauqua.craigslist.org/pho/1067758911.html

[slodave]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Well I got it. Everything looked hardly used at all, a bit dusty but not bad. It came with all the manuals, a 10 and 25mm eyepiece, 90 degree finder scope and a LaserMate Collimator. She got her birthday present a bit early because it was so nice out tonight and Dad wanted to use it too. Saturn was very clear tonight along with her moons, sure a lot nicer than the one I had 40 years ago!! This is going to be a lot of fun!

Can I come over and play?

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Cgarr, when you need that mirror recoated, talk to me. I can drive over to Tucson and do it. Only $10K and 5 day turn around, but it'll be the best damned mirror you've ever seen

Just don't feed Mike any beer. The mirror may look real purty, but it'd be as flawed as the Hubble's mirror!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by FrinkFrog

Is this one any kind of a deal? Found on my local Craigslist.

http://chautauqua.craigslist.org/pho/1067758911.html

No, I think the reason for the high cost is because it includes a "DSI" type camera, but it's on an Alt-Az mount which is bad for imaging. For imaging, you really need an German Equatorial Mount (GEM). You're better off skipping the Astrophotography initially and getting something for visual observing before you try for AP. AP is expensive and difficult (relatively). For that price you could get a decent scope on a decent GEM and then get a DSLR to go with it.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by masraum

No, I think the reason for the high cost is because it includes a "DSI" type camera, but it's on an Alt-Az mount which is bad for imaging. For imaging, you really need an German Equatorial Mount (GEM). You're better off skipping the Astrophotography initially and getting something for visual observing before you try for AP. AP is expensive and difficult (relatively). For that price you could get a decent scope on a decent GEM and then get a DSLR to go with it.

Actually,it's a great price, and an amazing telescope (for someone who wouldn't want to go for a custom).
1) The wedge is included, so it can be single axis tracking
2) With the DSI, it's designed to work with the alt-az data from the scope, to take many short CCD images, auto-rotate them in the software, and co-add them, just like the big observatory scopes do it.
3) It comes with lots of great accessories, including the nice Losmandy dovetail mount, which means he could mount a widefield scope on top, image through that, and get great wide field CCD images.
4) It comes with all of the bells and whistles that one would normally want with that scope

$1600 for all that, assuming it's all clean and works well (no frayed cables, no scratches, etc) is a great price of someone wants a SERIOUS scope that will keep them busy for years.

But...a 10 inch LX-200 is a freak HANDFUL of telescope. I would not be comfortable putting that on or off the tripod alone in the dark. With 2 people, it's trivial.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by slodave

Just don't feed Mike any beer. The mirror may look real purty, but it'd be as flawed as the Hubble's mirror!

I love you Porsche guys...the $10K price tag don't even make you blink