I think much of it is how well the frame is engineered. The Al bikes I had were really too harsh on our roads even with CF fork. My Ti bikes were actually too compliant and I felt gave up to much in the sprint or climbs. Carbon seems to be "just right" although I consider my Specialized a little too compliant. I actually liked the Giant TCR frame but because I wanted to run a triple crank this did not work. OTOH, those Orbea's are sweet.

just because it's carbon doesn't mean it's GOOD carbon

This Masi Speciale 105 will last you forever and it's just a little bit above your budget. I bet you can find it cheaper than the MSRP. It's my dream bike now.

http://www.masibikes.com/tab3_subNav3.php

Masi is a great bike. Steel is real (I know I ride AL/Carbon right now, but my heart still lies with steel!)

The forgotten one...MARINONI
http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/IndexEn.html

How about some vintage steel...kidding aside you should be able to get a really nice old steel bike for $1500 if you are patient and hunt around.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1237204597.jpg

I have been commuting on this in Shanghai the last 5 months or so. 30km round trip. RMB500/USD75. It works great and I would not be too upset if it gets stolen, rained on, splattered on, dented or scratched. I paid and extra RMB21/US$3 for the seat replacement.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1237204620.jpg

$1500 will get you a lot of bike...

Get a used Italian steel bike, with mid to hi range Campagnolo components, ergo shifters. Shimano is fine, however Italian bikes deserve Campy. SLX steel from the 1990's works great. DeRosa, Pinarello, Masi, Marinoni, etc. Fitment is of utmost importance.
With this strategy you will end up with twice the bike, for half the cost. You will as well have a bike that will probably appreciate in value.

So the deal is that steel still has real appeal? :) I'd like to know more about that. Is there an analogy to be drawn to cd players vs turntables? Seriously, mebbe I'll end up wanting a steel bike?

That sounds very appealing. Are such bikes few and far between, hard to find? The only thing I know (I think) that I need is a 58" frame. What should I expect to pay?

Steel is indeed real. And titanium is even more real.

Why not get something that can actually do some dirt roads? You don't sacrifice that much on the pavement and get versatility. Unless you're an Armstrong wanna-be, going with carbon this, STI that is a waste imho.

I prefer barcon shifters. Totally bombproof. And a decent steel frame with stout wheelset and at least 28mm wide tires.

Here's what I've got for "road" (I bought the frame/fork and built it from old parts I had):

http://salsacycles.com/casserollComp08.html

Or if you are a little more old school:

http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bicycle_models#product=50-700

You may need something bigger. Read this page:

http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/fit_sizing_position

And thanks for the links. SmileWavy

The whole "light bike" thing is for those who race and those who pose imho (and perhaps gearheads and weight weenies). The difference in feel between a 16lb bike and a 22lb bike for a typical rider will be minimal. 99% of riders would be better off losing 6lbs of their own weight rather than throwing money at the bike.

You can get a good steel frame with solid components and put tens of thousands of miles on it without any issue. Or you can buy some stupid CF frame (plastic) with ultra whizzy rims and super-mondo components and have it look pretty in the garage or at Starbucks. I'd rather have a tough, functional bike that is actually comfortable to ride. And there is no way in hell I'd ever own an Al frame, but that is my personal bias. Ti is first choice followed by steel. After that...I'm not interested.

Got a bunch of money and want the coolest bike ever? This would be my choice:

http://moots.com/?#/product/bicycles/road_+_speciality/comooter/

Thanks!

You've put me on track in three swell foops. Should I buy a Moot? Probably moot - don't got big bunch money. Haven't Googled them for price, though.

Can't wait to have my gf measure my pbh tonight. I should probably tell her to be gentle, huh?

Off to buy a couple paint paddles. SmileWavy

+1

I'm 220 lb. How's a sub 15 lb CF bike going to be a benefit to me? My current aluminium ride is around 18 lb. I can lose the 3 lb difference in one trip to the crapper.

Moots is high end and very nice. There are other Ti makers out there that are a little cheaper. Check out Litespeed or Merlin. Bikesdirect also makes a very decent Ti bike but they are sold out at the moment.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp_ti_09.htm

My old bike (the one that got ripped off, if you remember) was an '86 Pinarello Catena Lusso. Fantastic bike. Probably the best I've ever owned until my current FP2 - and it's very difficult to compare that one to anything else I've ever owned since it's in SUCH a completely different league. Although I love the FP2, I really miss my old steel frame Catena Lusso. That bike kicked ass - and it was hilariously good fun to pass guys on Saturday mornings who were out on their $4,000 Cervelos huffing and puffing along on my "old" steel bike with ratty paint and mismatched components. Good times. :)

I still love the feel of a good steel frame bike. Once I get working again and things settle down, picking up/building another steel bike is on my list of things to do. Maybe a Bianchi or something. Dunno. They're a completely different experience than anything else you'll ride though.

Yes, Vintage steel is the way to go. Italian or hand made in the US frames with high end Shimano or Campy components could be had for $1500.

I picked this up for $500 on ebay last year. $500 gets me a new starter bike at the bike store...

Late 80s Davidson with Shimano DuraAce Groupo, frame hand built in Seattle.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184560163.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184560178.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184560196.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184560214.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1184560228.jpg

I raced a Davidson Stiletto for two seasons (fastest bike I ever rode) and also had a Davidson tandem that I lost in the first divorce. Great bikes.

That's art!

Hooowah! I'm gonna go old school steel frame w/Campy (or high end Shimano) :). Just found a loong established Mom & Pop shop (referred by another bike shop that doesn't sell or build steel bikes) not far from me that sounds like exactly what I need. They're closed Mon. but I looked in the windows and am gonna be there when he and his wife open at 11:00 am tomorrow.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/pacific-coast-cycles-oceanside for 5 reviews. The last, below, makes me really hope that my excitement is warranted:

"This shop is owned by Chuck Hoefer who came to Carlsbad to work for Masi filing lugs and frames. After Masi shut down shop Chuck bought this shop, that was in 1977. Since then Chuck has striven to be a real bike shop; not a bike store. In the early eighties Chuck got into riding off road and at one time if you wanted a mountian bike this is the only place in southern California where you could find one.

At this shop you can get a bike brazed, filed, tapped, faced, chased, tuned, painted, and oh yea Chuck is a great wheel builder who can build you anything from the superlight race wheelset to the super knarly downhill wheels and he can solve most people's wheel problems.

This shop has sent people like Leo Castellon, Brian Lucas and Mike Varley out into the bike industry where they have built or designed bikes that you or your kids have probably ridden. This shop tends to keep their employees around for years and don't be surprised to see someone from another shop in here looking for some hard to find part or just hanging out. Oh yea, this shop can find or order just about anything. So if you're looking for a real bike shop this is it."

More reviews here: http://www.socalmtb.com/shops/openshop.cgi?loc=socal&lbs=sd__12