Hyundai & GM

[onewhippedpuppy]

I wonder if GM is paying attention? Every year, their cars seem to get more interesting, appealing, and higher quality. The Genesis is basically a Lexus LS for $20k less and receives good reviews.



The Genesis coupe has over 300 HP, RWD, Brembos, and Edmunds called it "the best RWD sport coupe for under $30k".



Their other products are overall solid, reliable, and priced well for their segment. They've come a long way over the last 20 years. You think anyone in America is paying attention to the fact that quality products priced at/below the competitors will sell?

[m21sniper]

GM (Buick) just beat Lexus for #1 in reliability in a new survey. So much for "US cars are junk."

I would not buy a hyundai based on my experiences with them, but i have never seen a Genesis, it may be a new dawn for them. Only time will tell when we see how they hold up.

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

GM (Buick) just beat Lexus for #1 in reliability in a new survey. So much for "US cars are junk."

I would not buy a hyundai based on my experiences with them, but i have never seen a Genesis, it may be a new dawn for them. Only time will tell when we see how they hold up.

As pointed out in the other thread, those reliability surveys are flawed because they do not distinguish between types of problems. Everything from wind noise to engine failure is treated the same way.

[kaisen]

Matt, have you driven a Genesis?
These are the same journalists that named the 1983 AMC Alliance the 'Car of the Year' and the same year proclaimed the Pontiac 6000STE a better BMW 320i for thousands less.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

As pointed out in the other thread, those reliability surveys are flawed because they do not distinguish between types of problems. Everything from wind noise to engine failure is treated the same way.

Were they flawed when lexus won every year in a row? Or just now that a US car company won?

There is nothing wrong with those surveys, wind noise is a VERY REAL customer complaint. Ask any poor SOB mechanic whose spent all day chasing wind noises down...like i have.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Matt, have you driven a Genesis?
These are the same journalists that named the 1983 AMC Alliance the 'Car of the Year' and the same year proclaimed the Pontiac 6000STE a better BMW 320i for thousands less.

Nope, have you? I just know that every magazine I read has minor complaints, but overall rates it as a freakin' steal for the money. Overall it looks to be a very nice car.

m21, my dad is on his 2nd Sonata. Both have been trouble-free, unlike the Dodge Stratus that they replaced. It's not an exciting car, but the materials appear, feel, and wear like they are high quality, and the driving experience is not offensive. The exterior has worn well, with impressively tight and even body gaps. It's not for me, but is a perfect commuter appliance.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Were they flawed when lexus won every year in a row? Or just now that a US car company won?

There is nothing wrong with those surveys, wind noise is a VERY REAL customer complaint. Ask any poor SOB mechanic whose spent all day chasing wind noises down...like i have.

That's BS and you know it. They currently rate wind noise equal to engine or transmission failure. I've never had wind noise strand me in the middle of nowhere. I'll happlily admit that JD Power is flawed, and I even own a Jag.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Matt, have you driven a Genesis?
These are the same journalists that named the 1983 AMC Alliance the 'Car of the Year' and the same year proclaimed the Pontiac 6000STE a better BMW 320i for thousands less.

The same people from 26 years ago? Remarkable! I've never seen such a lack of turnover. It must be a great job.

Hyundai has done quite a job of gaining acceptance for their cars sold in the US. I remember the first ads that were more focused on how to pronounce their company's name.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Remember this POS, that liked to randomly burst into flames?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Nope, have you? I just know that every magazine I read has minor complaints, but overall rates it as a freakin' steal for the money. Overall it looks to be a very nice car.

m21, my dad is on his 2nd Sonata. Both have been trouble-free, unlike the Dodge Stratus that they replaced. It's not an exciting car, but the materials appear, feel, and wear like they are high quality, and the driving experience is not offensive. The exterior has worn well, with impressively tight and even body gaps. It's not for me, but is a perfect commuter appliance.

My experience with the newer Hyundai's is very limited. (reason being my old man and i stopped buying them many years ago because back then they were total chit-boxes).

Stratus' are crap.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

That's BS and you know it. They currently rate wind noise equal to engine or transmission failure. I've never had wind noise strand me in the middle of nowhere. I'll happlily admit that JD Power is flawed, and I even own a Jag.

Wind noise accounts for far more customer complaints in dealerships than transmission failuires ever will. Dealers spend millions upon millions of dollars every year trying to find customers wind noises.

I suggest if you were in the repair industry you'd have a much different view on the validity of wind noises as customer complaints. What's more, wind noise in a brand new car is very much a sign of poor quality IMO.

As a former professional auto technician i have no problems whatsoever with the survey.

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Were they flawed when lexus won every year in a row? Or just now that a US car company won?

There is nothing wrong with those surveys, wind noise is a VERY REAL customer complaint. Ask any poor SOB mechanic whose spent all day chasing wind noises down...like i have.

Yes they are fundamentally flawed. I can live with a loud car, I can't live with a car that is undriveable.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Stratus' are crap.

True. It's only noteworthy because my dad was a MOPAR man to the core. He grew up in Richard Petty's hometown, and his dad had a shop that specialized in tuning Hemis. A POS Stratus and Sebring finally broke him, and he swore to never buy another Chrysler. Now they have a Toyota and a Hyundai, couldn't be happier.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

True. It's only noteworthy because my dad was a MOPAR man to the core. He grew up in Richard Petty's hometown, and his dad had a shop that specialized in tuning Hemis. A POS Stratus and Sebring finally broke him, and he swore to never buy another Chrysler.

There are some really nice X-lers, but they all have known issues(most cars do). I think the best of them is the 300. I would definitely buy one of those.

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Wind noise accounts for far more customer complaints in dealerships than transmission failuires ever will. Dealers spend millions upon millions of dollars every year trying to find customers wind noises.

I suggest if you were in the repair industry you'd have a much different view on the validity of wind noises as customer complaints. What's more, wind noise in a brand new car is very much a sign of poor quality IMO.

As a former professional auto technician i have no problems whatsoever with the survey.

This is a decent point. However, in reading reviews of tons of different products from cars to electronics, many consumers have very unrealistic expectations of how the product is actually supposed to perform. Suppose that a customer comes into the shop complaining about excess wind noise at highway speeds. There is a very decent chance that what they are referring to is normal, but they expect the car to be whisper quiet. While nothing may have actually been wrong, a problem is reported to the survey.

Now contrast that with a car that is brought into the shop because it holds every gear to redline before it will shift. That is clearly not normal and the problem is reported and fixed. It is more likely that a consumer is going to correctly self-diagnose an actual problem when it is something serious, as opposed to something minor such as supposed wind noise.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Nope, have you? I just know that every magazine I read has minor complaints, but overall rates it as a freakin' steal for the money. Overall it looks to be a very nice car.

m21, my dad is on his 2nd Sonata. Both have been trouble-free, unlike the Dodge Stratus that they replaced. It's not an exciting car, but the materials appear, feel, and wear like they are high quality, and the driving experience is not offensive. The exterior has worn well, with impressively tight and even body gaps. It's not for me, but is a perfect commuter appliance.

I have driven the sedans on numerous occasions (pre-production and off-the-lot). They're okay, nothing special. Only their price is special. They are rear wheel drive, so they get compared to expensive rear-drive European and Japanese luxury sedans. If you compared it to a nice front-drive Nissan, Honda, Toyota, or Buick, you'd be hard pressed to get excited. The Hyundai dealer experience is not the Lexus experience. You'll be sharing the service lounge with Shaniqua and her three welfare kids. The V6 is the way to go, BTW.

The Genesis Coupe is really without peer. The Japanese no longer make an affordable rear-drive sports coupe and the US ponycars are a different breed. The turbo 4 cylinder is awesome. Again, for the money. Easy to cheer for the only player.

The Azera is a used-car bargain. The Sonatas, particularly the 2009's, deserve their accolades and will solidify their reputation.

I like Hyundais, but the Genesis sedan ain't all that.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I like Hyundais, but the Genesis sedan ain't all that.

Like I said, good car for the money. Seriously, nobody is going to cross-shop a Lexus LS with a Genesis. You're talking about an entirely different class of people. But a Genesis vs an Altima, Taurus, Malibu, or Accord? Those are match-ups that make the Hyundai look pretty appealing, at least if you value features and luxury.

The Genesis coupe vs the upcoming V6 Camaro should be an interesting comparison test.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Like I said, good car for the money. ...But a Genesis vs an Altima, Taurus, Malibu, or Accord? Those are match-ups that make the Hyundai look pretty appealing, at least if you value features and luxury.

Sell me on the idea. Compare to an Altima or Malibu

[mikester]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Matt, have you driven a Genesis?
These are the same journalists that named the 1983 AMC Alliance the 'Car of the Year' and the same year proclaimed the Pontiac 6000STE a better BMW 320i for thousands less.

We had a Pontiac 6000STE - man that car was a hunk of JUNK!!! No way it could ever compare to a BMW - though the seats were comfy I suppose.

I had a '96 Pontiac Sunfire and it was an excellent car. I don't have one single thing bad to say about it but I would never compare it to a BMW.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Matt, have you driven a Genesis?
These are the same journalists that named the 1983 AMC Alliance the 'Car of the Year' and the same year proclaimed the Pontiac 6000STE a better BMW 320i for thousands less.

the same guys who lumped the Genesis (4-door) into a Muscle Car Story with the current Mustang (Shelby's 600+hp monster), the soon-to-be-here Camaro (400+hp), and the Challenger SRT-8 (425+hp).


OH...I forgot. the writer (syndicated columnist) was foreign born and was under thirty years old.



He wouldn't know a muscle car if it bit him in the ass.

Give me a break-----