Toyko Fed Ex Crash

[fingpilot]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

You guys are missing the beginning of the video. There is tire smoke already. The plane touched down once, and then got airborne again resulting in the hard/bounce landing.

Some of the crash vids do not include the first touchdown. Anyone that has seen the entire sequence gasps as the nose comes back up after the first touchdown. I know I did. In this plane spoiler deploy causes a nose up. Watch for it in the x-wind clip I attached. This plane also has 'nose lowering assist'. Intended to offset the spoiler deploy from the mains touchdown. Even then, only a partial deploy. The rest of the deploy is only on nose landing gear touchdown. Tail engine reverse is also inhibited past idle thrust until NLG on ground. A lot of artificial things intended to prevent the nose from coming back up after touchdown..

[Normy]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Normy;

First off, condolences to the FedEx family.

Gang:

The MD11 is the growth variant of the DC10. The similarities end there. Because of the 'stretch' and the redesign of the DC10 into what eventually became the MD11, there were quite a few systems and design changes that occurred as the plane matured. The type rating was different for the two. There was even a MD10, a back variant of the MD11 using the DC10 airframe.

The investigation will sort out the actual cause, but as it does, you'll hear all about the autospoilers, the SAS added to compensate for a different tailplane, the 'active horizontal stab', and the unusual pitches that config change (some of it automatic) and power changes have on flying this series of plane. It was a very complex relationship. Yes, I've seen the videos, showing the first set of touchdowns, and watched the crash progress. I think there were several things going on all at once. But the only important part of it all is to wait for the data from the orange box before speculating.

You'll hear some nicknames given to the MD11 that are not funny. It was a modern, very capable machine based on a venerable design. Flown by a very capable crew.

Lest we ever forget, a crash is NEVER a single event brought on by a single event. Murphy is a passenger on every flight.

We will all learn from this and every crash.

And mourn the loss of friends.

First of all, thank you. All of us at "big purple" are saddened by this accident. We have been flying since April 1973, and this is the first time that any Fedex pilot has lost his or her life on the job.

-Let's face it, there is only ONE way to prevent aircraft accident: stop flying airplanes. That is, of course, ridiculous. All we can do is be as careful as possible. The rest? If you are religious, then you pray. I'm not religious, so I just hope for the best and study my aircraft operators manual on a regular basis.

[I keep it next to the toilet; best time to study, I've found! sorry~]

I didn't know the pilots flying this airplane, though their names are familiar and I think I have jumpseated with them in the past. Everyone at Fedex is a different sort of person in my viewpoint. Everyone is friendly- the schedulers, the pilots, even the manual laborers who load our planes. At 0230 in the morning, I climb into the 727 and stow my rollaway and my backpack and one of the loaders will come into the cockpit and ask me to turn on the hydraulic system so that they can open the cargo door on the side of the plane. Usually some black guy about 21 years old...

"Hey! Howya dooin? Can ya turn on the hydraulics for the door?" he says with a smile. Even first thing in the morning, when we arrive at our destination at 6 AM, we climb down the stairs from the airplanes and our most basic laborers are smiling and saying "hey" or "How you doing?". I've worked at 6 [six!] airlines and I have never seen anything like this. This company, Fedex, is filled with very nice people.

As to what happened in Narita: I have never flown the MD-11 aircraft, but friends that have have told me that it is a difficult to land aircraft because the tail is too small. This is a stretched DC-10, but for some reason McDonnel Douglas decided to reduce the size of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator at the back of the plane. I suspect that the crew encountered wind shear, lost airspeed, and then the plane slammed into the runway. It bounced back into the air, then the nose dropped and the nosewheel and left main gear slammed into the runway excessively hard, the left wing broke off, and the plane rolled over onto its' back.

I have read that the crew survived the accident, but died en route to a Tokyo hospital. Pictures online show that fire did not reach the cockpit.

-Listen: Each of us climbs into a vehicle every day and go to work, school, grocery store, et cetra. Every time you leave the house, you run a risk. Don't let it stop you from driving your Porsche. Someone tomorrow will get killed in a car. Will it be me? Maybe. I don't think about that sort of thing when I climb into my 928, and I don't think about that when I climb into a 727 either. But I DO make sure my seat belt is attached properly.

Thanx for the thoughts. My thoughts are with my dead colleagues.

N!

[rick-l]

not app

[450knotOffice]

Excellent post Norm. So sad.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Some of the crash vids do not include the first touchdown. Anyone that has seen the entire sequence gasps as the nose comes back up after the first touchdown.

This one does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3rkrrrF6Ls&feature=related

[rhjames]

a possible contributing factor:

when the DC 10 was converted to MD 11, and then further converted to cargo only status, the horizontal and vertical stabilizers were reduced in size for performance (speed/cargo capacity increases) gains.

this reduction in operating surfaces reduced the aircraft's ability to maintain attitude, whether it is nose up or nose down.

as my fighter jock parental figure tells me, it appears to be pilot error and over correction.

(disclaimer: fighter jock parental figure has flown many hot scramble alert sorties in the Japan theater in much worse conditions---raging typhoons)


only time and research will give the correct analysis of what actually happened in the cockpit.



condolences to the Fed Ex team.....

[Jim727]

Please add my name to the book of condolences. Losing a crew and aircraft is a rough experience - my very best to the full FedEx family.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by Jim727

Please add my name to the book of condolences. Losing a crew and aircraft is a rough experience - my very best to the full FedEx family.

I was in San Antonio today for some appts. When leaving around 2 this afternoon, on the north side of town heading down 281 South I came upon a small traffic jam as cars slowed and moved to the left lane. In the center lane were at least 50 white FedEx devlivery trucks with their liights flashing. I thought what is this, a FedEx funeral procession??? And it was. As I got to the front of the column there were 4-5 limos, a hearse and 6 motorcycle cops leading the way.

Pulled up the SA Express News on the web when I got home. One of the FedEx pilots killed in the crash had retired from the USAF and lived in San Antonio. The procession was heading towards Ft. Sam National cemetary.

Really a moving tribute to the pilot....